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  • #16
    The Software (vBulletin) may not be used for anything that would represent or is associated with an Intellectual Property violation, including, but not limited to, engaging in any activity that infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of others, including copyrights, trademarks, service marks, trade secrets, software piracy, and patents held by individuals, corporations, or other entities.
    Sometimes if you ever have a question about a particular subject you will use for your forums, it never does hurt to ask someone from Jelsoft.
    ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
    Director, WorldSims.org | Gaming Hosting Administrator, SimGames.net, Urban Online Entertainment

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    • #17
      Sometimes if you ever have a question about a particular subject you will use for your forums, it never does hurt to ask someone from Jelsoft.
      We only discuss MP3's VCD etc...but it would be to much hassle having to ask what we can & cannot discuss, surely we are old enough to have a sensible topic about anything we like within reason without having to ask big brother all the time, this is why I choose Phpbb over any other forum, as they do not care to much about what you discuss, after all they are only supplying the vehicle to do it, so I don't really see what the problem is with VB relaxing it's licence to remove the above statement.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jamer
        We only discuss MP3's VCD etc...but it would be to much hassle having to ask what we can & cannot discuss, surely we are old enough to have a sensible topic about anything we like within reason without having to ask big brother all the time, this is why I choose Phpbb over any other forum, as they do not care to much about what you discuss, after all they are only supplying the vehicle to do it, so I don't really see what the problem is with VB relaxing it's licence to remove the above statement.
        The problem is that it makes Jelsoft look bad to have it's flagship product associated with illegal activities.

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        • #19
          That is a very poor argument, you could say that about anything, smith & western who make guns, Ford who make cars, if people drove them fast & killed someone, how would that be Fords fault? sorry I totally disagree.

          We are only talking about a discussion board here, yes discussion board to discuss things.......

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jamer
            That is a very poor argument, you could say that about anything, smith & western who make guns, Ford who make cars, if people drove them fast & killed someone, how would that be Fords fault? sorry I totally disagree.

            We are only talking about a discussion board here, yes discussion board to discuss things.......
            Well there you have it.
            If you user your car for illegal activities, it get's impounded and you could loose your drivers license
            If you use your gun for illegal activities, guess what, ditto.
            The same applies to your vBulletin license.

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            • #21
              Your missing the point, I was refering to you comments, how could what you discuss ever be Jelsofts fault?
              The problem is that it makes Jelsoft look bad to have it's flagship product associated with illegal activities

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Jamer
                Your missing the point, I was refering to you comments, how could what you discuss ever be Jelsofts fault?
                You're missing the point.
                Jelsoft is disassociating itself from illegal activities and it is the "fault" of those participating in said activities.


                It's quite simple.
                By using the product you agree to be bound by the terms of the license agreement.
                A clause in the agreement states:
                The Software (vBulletin) may not be used for anything that would represent or is associated with an Intellectual Property violation, including, but not limited to, engaging in any activity that infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of others, including copyrights, trademarks, service marks, trade secrets, software piracy, and patents held by individuals, corporations, or other entities.
                If you wish to use the product you must abide by all terms of the license agreement including this one.
                If you disagree then the only course of action open to you is to stop using the product and remove it from your system.

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                • #23
                  I am not saying that I disagree, I am asking why it needs to be there as a clause? the topic is VB Vs Phpbb & in this case Phpbb wins hands down! I am sorry but if you pay for the product, you shouldn't be bound to what you can & cannot discuss,you can discuss this & that but not the other, defeats the whole point of being a discussion board, if you are told what you can & cannot discuss...as I said just my opinion, but that is why I am still using Phpbb & have a fully licenced VB which I am not able to use because of this. There are many very good well coded forum scripts available for free, but even when you actually purchase one, (which is not exactly cheap), you are still restricted in your discussions....please note I only said discussions, I do not offer anything illegal, but we often discuss gray area topics, as I very much belive in freedom of speech & let everybody subscribing to the forum make up their own minds.
                  Last edited by Jamer; Mon 14 Apr '03, 2:56am.

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                  • #24
                    Mmmm I did not realise that there were clauses with VB, I was about to purchase a licence, I think I will take a look at phpbb first, as I too do not like being told what I can discuss, i am an adult and I can decide for myself thank you.

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                    • #25
                      The clasuse does NOT limit you discussing these things. If no illegeal activities are actully committed on the board, then it is fine.

                      They have to have that clause because if one was distributing MP3s for example, and the crazy folk down at the RIAA decide to sue Jelsoft along with the owners of the board for a few billion that would be bad.

                      I know of one board that discusses warez and talks about where to get it, but they have not lost their license since they do not distribute it. Freedom of speech is upheld within the license agreement. Keep it legal, and you are fine.

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                      • #26
                        The clause in question:

                        The Software may not be used for anything that would represent or is associated with an Intellectual Property violation, including, but not limited to, engaging in any activity that infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of others, including copyrights, trademarks, service marks, trade secrets, software piracy, and patents held by individuals, corporations, or other entities.
                        Frankly it would be hypocritical of us to activiely pursure vB pirates if we did not have an Intellectual Property clause like this. By all means if you wish to engage in IP vioations then vB is not the system for you. As has been pointed out that are other alternatives if this is your inclination.
                        Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
                        Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

                        Steve Machol Photography


                        Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jamer
                          I am not saying that I disagree, I am asking why it needs to be there as a clause? the topic is VB Vs Phpbb & in this case Phpbb wins hands down! I am sorry but if you pay for the product, you shouldn't be bound to what you can & cannot discuss,you can discuss this & that but not the other, defeats the whole point of being a discussion board, if you are told what you can & cannot discuss...as I said just my opinion, but that is why I am still using Phpbb & have a fully licenced VB which I am not able to use because of this. There are many very good well coded forum scripts available for free, but even when you actually purchase one, (which is not exactly cheap), you are still restricted in your discussions....please note I only said discussions, I do not offer anything illegal, but we often discuss gray area topics, as I very much belive in freedom of speech & let everybody subscribing to the forum make up their own minds.
                          Honestly Jamer, if you could ask simply "can we discuss about MP3s and VCDs" but add a side note of not distributing them, to the vBulletin Team, I'm sure you would get approval on that.
                          ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
                          Director, WorldSims.org | Gaming Hosting Administrator, SimGames.net, Urban Online Entertainment

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by UHN_ED
                            The clasuse does NOT limit you discussing these things. If no illegeal activities are actully committed on the board, then it is fine.

                            They have to have that clause because if one was distributing MP3s for example, and the crazy folk down at the RIAA decide to sue Jelsoft along with the owners of the board for a few billion that would be bad.

                            I know of one board that discusses warez and talks about where to get it, but they have not lost their license since they do not distribute it. Freedom of speech is upheld within the license agreement. Keep it legal, and you are fine.
                            I cannot see how, if a board was involved in discussion about warez, the programmers of the software the the board operates on can be liable and I am therefore inclined to agree with what Jamer has stated in terms that there is no need for such a clause.

                            Intellectual property law works primarily on the loss to the owner of the copyright or trademark and the software itself does not cause such loss. Even taken at it highest and assuming that the board is used to distribute illegally obtained or cracked software, Providing the manufacturers of the software haven't actively particpated in any deals, or done a positive act to encourage it which would constitute incitement, I fail to see a basis upon which they could be held legally responsible.

                            No conspiracy to infringe copyright could be drawn because a prosecution would struggle to show any intent by the manufacturer if the software to infringe the same.

                            I therefore fail to see the protection that the clause in the license provides and view it as an uneccessary obstruction.

                            out of interest, at what point of obtaining the software are you made aware of this clause because clauses like that one have to be introduced in the early stages of a contract of they are to be legally binding.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by PaulB
                              I cannot see how, if a board was involved in discussion about warez, the programmers of the software the the board operates on can be liable and I am therefore inclined to agree with what Jamer has stated in terms that there is no need for such a clause.

                              Intellectual property law works primarily on the loss to the owner of the copyright or trademark and the software itself does not cause such loss. Even taken at it highest and assuming that the board is used to distribute illegally obtained or cracked software, Providing the manufacturers of the software haven't actively particpated in any deals, or done a positive act to encourage it which would constitute incitement, I fail to see a basis upon which they could be held legally responsible.

                              No conspiracy to infringe copyright could be drawn because a prosecution would struggle to show any intent by the manufacturer if the software to infringe the same.

                              I therefore fail to see the protection that the clause in the license provides and view it as an uneccessary obstruction.

                              out of interest, at what point of obtaining the software are you made aware of this clause because clauses like that one have to be introduced in the early stages of a contract of they are to be legally binding.
                              You are spot on with your comments above, you sound like a lawyer or someone who knows what they are talking about. I think reading through posts by Jamer, he does not distribute anything, he just allows it's discussion, if some of his members choose to distribute warez or mp3's then that is hardly his fault, knor should it infridge his VB licence, could someone form VB please comment of these rather important issues, before I decide to purchase or not.

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                              • #30
                                It's difficult to comment without seeing the exact forum and posts in question. If he allows links to warez downloads and sites, then this is an IP violation. As has been pointed out, if your purpose is to engage in activities that infringe on the copyrights of others, then you have other choices.
                                Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
                                Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

                                Steve Machol Photography


                                Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


                                Comment

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