Advice from vBulletin users wanted - which version should I use... 4 or 5?

[nomadgirl]

Hi all,

Ok, so I bought a vBulletin 5 license (includes vBulletin 4 and didn't cost extra, so I figured I might as well) - now I'm wondering what version is better?

It's going to be for a brand new forum, and I have zero experience in setting up something like this (in case that makes a difference to your answer) - crazy perhaps, but I'm hell-bent on learning how to do this.

Which version do you guys recommend I start with? Lots of negativity and reports about too many bugs with vBulletin 5 out there on the internet - but much of it is from a year or two ago - I understand that this forum is running on vBulletin 5...

I'd love to hear from people who have experience with running a forum on vBulletin 4 or 5...

Thanks for reading all!

[yv3013]

I started with vb5 from the beginning, it's ok I guess, but you'll want to be a quick learner of how to do things as technical advice from here assumes you know what your doing in almost every aspect. it won't be oh, go to here, click this, click that, put this in, press that and it will be ok.
it'll be more like, change the xxxx configurations, bye, if that doesn't work then spend half your life submitting us a ticket and if other vote that it's important we might have a look.

In my 2 years of vb5, every new version comes with new issues meaning your constantly seeking help, constantly waiting for new fixes but by the time those fixes come you need other fixes. basically they expect customers to point out issues, create support tickets and be part of the issue, they are not pro-active in finding bugs themselves and implementing the fixes in the next issue, we shouldn't have to know about them at all.

don't get me wrong, vb5 does work, it's just small issues mostly, but they don't release a new version that completely fixes the old, they create new features that are never right so it's a merry go round.
.
I think most would suggest you start with vb4 but I don't think you'll ever come to vb5 if that's the case, would you remove a souped up engine and put it in a different model vehicle?
I don't think so, that's why you don't see many active and large vb5 forums, all the parts from previous versions don't fit.

If I had my time back again i'd probably of started with a free forum that works like it should, instead of stuffing around with someone elses problems and supporting an unfinished project.
it's nothing like any other software that does what it says it will and when a new version comes it's even better, nope, it's like here's the new version in parts, load it up and tell us about all the problems your having so we can fix that in the next few versions, only to fix half and then promote the new version by saying, oh, we've added this new thing, which off course has it's own issues.

That's my opinion anyway, since you asked, but i'm sure others will have a different opinion and I might just be the odd one out. good luck!

[nomadgirl]

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts! I really appreciate it!

I am a total newb and non-techie. So I definitely do not "know what you're doing in almost every aspect" hehe Hence why I say it's somewhat crazy for me to be attempting this. But I'm also persistent and stubborn as hell, so hopefully I can put that to good use here and make this work.

In regards to the souped up engine thing for vB4, just curious - what kinds of mods to people usually add to vB4? I guess I'm just trying to figure out what is missing that they felt they needed to add via a modification? (and then figure out if that would apply to my situation)

[napy8gen]

Everything @yv3013 said is true. The product has no real beta environment. Only named beta but never been fully tested and audited. Tested in all browsers, Tested in mobile. Tested in Mac and PC. Tested in multiple display settings. They get a free users input when users reported bugs.They should pay for users to report bugs. Once a bug confirmed they should pay us 5USD for example.

The product also has no real direction. What they should do next. What they need to do next to keep survive and keep attention to the product. We are all tired because they have no real product development building and strategy. They expect users to vote. But they seems don't care about the votes at all. They know what is important from the jira votes but they just ignore it. They seems to live in their own box. They do not see what competitor is doing. What competitor do that excited their users. vBulletin never wanted to learn.

However, the coming soon 5.1.5 looks promising. But we also need to see the next 5.1.6, 2 or 3 more version.

[nomadgirl]

I really appreciate your comments - thank-you!

What kind of problems are most noticeable right now? browser issues? mac vs PC issues? display setting issues? mobile issues?

Sorry for asking so many questions... just trying to figure out exactly what I'd be in for problem-wise that I would avoid with vB4.

[ozzy47]

TBH if you are just starting out, I would go with vb4

Most sites starting out usually go with a shared server, or a cheap VPS. Now if you run vB5 it will be slow and cumbersome, and you will find yourself geting frustrated and either giving up, or throwing more hardware into the server.

You can always upgrade to vB5 at a later date, but you can not downgrade from vB5 to vB4.

[nomadgirl]

Thanks so much for your comments - much appreciated!

I bought a year of shared hosting with urljet.com (vB Pro: http://www.urljet.com/vbulletin-hosting.php ) - seems like they get good reviews overall, and I don't mind paying extra if it saves me hassle when I need support. Hopefully I made a good call on that one.

3 questions if you don't mind:

1. Does my choice of hosting change your opinion ozzy47, about the slow and cumbersome running of vB5? Or no?

2. Also, if I install vB4 now, will I have to pay extra to upgrade to vB5 in future? (the license I bought gives access to both, but not sure if that changes once I install it on my domain)

3. Also, assuming I start with vB4, and I eventually switch to vB5, will the switch screw up everything SEO-wise for my forum? I seem to recall reading in the forums here that people who switched from vB4 to vB5 were really peeved off because their sites lost rankings and had to be re-indexed by the search engines since the forum thread url's were all different after the switch? I'm trying to think long-term on this... I intend to give this forum 5 years at least to get going before I decide whether or not to scrap it, so I figure there are good odds that by then end of that 5 year period, if things are going well, I may very well want to change to vB5 if it's better by then, right?

[durruti]

You buy a license for vB5, why would you use a lower and not actively developed any longer version? It's just like buying a Ferrari but opting to use the free bicycle gift attached to the car. Your forum is brand new and you have zero experience, don't waste your time learning outdated things. You only have one month worth of free support tickets (unless you pay more), use them to the maximum you can. Explore the ups and down of vB5 Connect together with vBulletin support staff and your web host staff.

Take note that theoretically, vB5 is extremely user friendly compared to vB4 due to its site builder (drag and drop ability).
Don't waver your heart and take the vB5 Connect challenge!

[nomadgirl]

Hi durruti - thanks for sharing your thoughts - much appreciated!

What you say echos exactly what I worry about if I choose to start with vB4 - but the trouble is, it seems that there are a lot of people who say vB4 is much more stable/works better than vB5... so that is what causes me to consider starting off with vB4. Plus, as donald mentioned below, apparently if I start with vB4, I have the option to upgrade to vB5, and then switch back to vB4 if it sucks. Whereas if I start with vB5 and it sucks, I'm stuck with it.

Are you running vB5? If so, is it working well for you so far?

And if you are not using vB5, was wondering if you'd mind sharing your reasoning.

Thanks again!

[durruti]

vB4 is outdated and has not receive any active development since 4.2.0. So far vBulletin is only upgrading its PHP version and that's just as much as you can hope for considering the current situation.

Don't worry yourself about stability and other similar nonsenses, your forum is new and you have zero knowledge, worst - you already purchased the license - so there is no reason for you to feel uncertain any longer. You have a very expensive one year hosting package and only one month free support tickets, make sure you make the best of them with vB5.

Even if in the worst scenario possible - vB5 turns out to be completely useless to you, you can migrate off to at least one other forum software company which will very soon release the most modern forum Suite so far pending the arrival of XF 2.0 and BB 4.2.

Bottom line is, you already know vB5 has very bad reputation and already know vB4 is outdated and yet you still purchase the license. There's no need to worry too much, try vB5, it may not be as bad as you think it is - who knows?

[nomadgirl]

Good food for thought. Well, that, and you did call vB5 a Ferrari... most people don't refer to it in a very positive light, so that caught my attention hehe.

It's tough as a total newbie to figure out what to do sometimes.

In any case, I can't install vB yet since I stupidly deleted my welcome e-mail, not realizing I'd need the info it contained for urljet to install vB. So I guess that buys me time to think about it... not sure how long it will take VB to respond to my support ticket requesting they re-send the e-mail hehe Hopefully not too long!

[donald1234]

Actually I disagree, the reason that URLjet are dearer than standard hosting is that they do installations and upgrades for free. Ozzy47 has given you the correct advice imo try out vb4 which has been around for a while and is extremely stable. If in the future you wish to upgrade and try out vb5 you can (in your case for free) and if you make a backup before doing so you can revert to vb4 if you don't like 5. Remember though if you start with 5 you are stuck with it, you can't downgrade, only start again from scratch.

[nomadgirl]

Hi donand1234! Thanks for the reply.

The fact that starting with vB4 allows me to upgrade for free in future to vB5 (and switch back to vB4 if vB5 sucks) is a very compelling reason to consider doing just that. Particularly if I can switch back after "upgrading" if it goes bad. Is there still an issue with SEO when switching from vB4 to 5?

[durruti]

Make sure to remember that vB4 is not responsive and the mobile skin is outdated.

http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBIV-16047

If you care about SEO, then responsiveness is a must.
In fact, responsiveness is the standard for modern forum.
vB5 is responsive, vB4 is not.

[nomadgirl]

Excellent info - thank-you so much for pointing that out!

I do want a mobile responsive forum - tons of people use mobile to access online stuff these days.

[Zachery]

Uh, what does a responsive style have to do with SEO?

[donald1234]

As you seem to have decided to buy a Vbulletin license, once you do you will be able to read the licensed customer feedback on this forum before making your final decision on what version to use. You cannot read that feedback till after you buy your license.

[nomadgirl]

Hey Donald - I already have the license, so I've been able to look at the feedback in the forums. But I guess the thing is that it's not all that common for people to post stuff like "vB4 is a good choice for you if..." or "vB5 is a good choice for you if..."... seems mostly posts about problems people are having (which is natural... you're more likely to take the time to post and say "how do I fix this" than you are to write a testimonial hehe), and since I am a total non-techie, a lot of the problems mentioned bring up stuff that I no nothing about hehe But for sure, I will be reading more there in the hopes of picking up a few useful nuggets of info, so it's a great suggestion - thank-you!

[usmcveteran8152]

V5 has a ton of bugs though and alot of the features don't even work properly. If I remember correctly there was only 1 person from original developers of V4 left as the rest quit so V5 was basically developed from scratch.

I wish they just added functionality to V4 to get V5 but you lose some functionality as well.

Also V5 has a lot more mods as well if that is important to you.

[nomadgirl]

Hi, thanks for the comment - yeah, I'd read that vB4 (assumed that's what you meant) has more mods - trouble is, I have no idea if it will be important to me, since I'm such a newb with this.

When I read the feature list for vB5 (and I mean focusing on the easy-to-understand stuff for non-techie like me... stuff like being able to pm people, subscribe to posts etc.), it appears that vB5 has everything I'd need.

So the thing I'm wondering is what is missing that commonly causes people to want mods for it? I guess it's something like once you get into running forums, you start to want extra stuff and realize how good it is to have, but when you're inexperienced like me, you have no idea what you'd be missing hehe

[donald1234]

[QUOTE=usmcveteran8152;n4238711

Also V5 has a lot more mods as well if that is important to you. [/QUOTE]

You mean VB4 has a lot of mods VB5 doesn't have hooks.

[nomadgirl]

Having hooks means the software can accommodate mods?

[Mark.B]

I'm going to stick my neck out here...

Most sites do not deploy substantial modifications. As long as you don't plan a heavily modified site, then....if I was starting a new forum today, I would now say go with vBulletin 5.

5.1.4 is a good solid starting point. 5.1.5 is bringing "User Mentions" into the native platform.

These support forums are probably not the ideal place to see real world behaviour on vB5 because of the custom deployment we have here which sometimes distorts performance.
For a better example see my 5.1.5 demo site: www.talknewsuk.com/testvb. 10,000 posts on there so it's not an empty database like you often see on demo sites.

[nomadgirl]

"Most site do not deploy substantial modifications" - THAT is very useful info - thank-you for sticking your neck out - much appreciated! When I look at the feature list for vB5, it seems good enough, but I was trying to figure out what I'd later be missing out on if all these people out there are adding mods (you know, wondering what do THEY know they need that I don't know about yet).

See, and the other thing is, there was this site-builder I used for my 1st website, and when they rebuilt it, it was buggy as all hell - drove me insane with frustration so I completely stopped working on my site for about 6-8 months to let things settle down, lots of customers left the company for Wordpress and people were VERY vocal slamming the company for all the bugs - fast forward to a year or two later, and it is a flipping fantastic website builder (bugs are gone). Now based on what I read here, the bugs are NOT all gone from vB5 yet... so I'm trying to figure out if the bugs are such that using it out of the box with no mods will be bad enough to drive me insane with frustration, or are not likely to be very noticeable to me at this point.

[ozzy47]

You buy a license for vB5, why would you use a lower and not actively developed any longer version? It's just like buying a Ferrari but opting to use the free bicycle gift attached to the car. Your forum is brand new and you have zero experience, don't waste your time learning outdated things. You only have one month worth of free support tickets (unless you pay more), use them to the maximum you can. Explore the ups and down of vB5 Connect together with vBulletin support staff and your web host staff.

Take note that theoretically, vB5 is extremely user friendly compared to vB4 due to its site builder (drag and drop ability).
Don't waver your heart and take the vB5 Connect challenge!

Well for one, the exact reason you state here.

Even if in the worst scenario possible - vB5 turns out to be completely useless to you, you can migrate off to at least one other forum software company which will very soon release the most modern forum Suite so far pending the arrival of XF 2.0 and BB 4.2.

Why on earth would I tell someone on this site to try something, and if they don't like it, migrate to another platform.

Make sure to remember that vB4 is not responsive and the mobile skin is outdated.

http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBIV-16047

If you care about SEO, then responsiveness is a must.
In fact, responsiveness is the standard for modern forum.
vB5 is responsive, vB4 is not.

Care to share a article from Google that states it will hurt your seo?
Also the mobile style works just fine, and there is a few mobile styles you can use in vB4 from third party developers.

Over all I still recommend vB4. There is tons of mods and people willing to work on it. And again, at some point you want to upgrade to vB5, you can, and if you don't like it, you can restore a backup that you take before upgrading. If you start with vB5 and don't like it, you are up a creek, without a paddle.

[Mark.B]

Responsiveness does not hurt "SEO" (which is a meaningless term anyway).

Google are starting to look at how sites handle mobile devices. That doesn't need to mean a responsive style. My vB4 site scores highly because I use Dartho's mobile style which is served automatically to mobile devices. The vB4 default mobile style would score similarly highly even though it is not actually "responsive".

[ozzy47]

Exactly.

[durruti]

To be clear, what I meant by:

If you care about SEO, then responsiveness is a must.

Is that if she is willing to spend money on SEO (something that you don't get out of the box), then she should also take responsiveness as a major factor as an integral part in any modern forum software. I'm not saying that the two are dependent on each other, what I'm saying is that the two are necessities if you want to go professional.

The rest of my posts were meant to show @nomadgirl the nature of her predicament, either use an outdated version that is not being developed any longer or the flagship product riddled with bugs.

Taking into account her one month only free support tickets and her very expensive hosting package (urljet is far from cheap), she should follow the proper direction, using the flagship product that is riddled with bugs - because vB5 is still actively developed.

As for all the sweet dream about vB4 mobile skin, allow me to shatter them with a direct quote from Paul:

I'll mark as confirmed [VBIV-16047], but we are not really working on the vB4 mobile style anymore, so this isn't likely to be looked at.


PS: People should tell her how wonderful vB4 CMS SEO is.
I believe that's one of the JIRA entries that customers has been demanding since ancient time.

[nomadgirl]

Hey durruti - no, I won't spend money on SEO - I was just thinking of the fact that I'd read of people switching from vB4 to 5 and having their forum thread url's changed during the switch so that their entire forum had to be re-indexed by Google and rankings dropped for a while - although I'm not sure what you mean about getting it out of the box - what kind of SEO stuff are you referring to?

And I'll have to google what CMS SEO is - no idea what that means hehe