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  • Question about renewal...

    Okay, I'm confused. I managed four vBulletins. Haven't felt like updating to v4 as I saw no point, but did upgrade one of them today just to see what v4 was like.

    But for one of the other licenses, it's now expired. And to renew it, I'm seeing: "Upgrade to vBulletin 4.0 Forum $175.00".

    Erm, is that true?

    It used to be about $40 to renew. v4 isn't even worth $40, but I've always been loyal to vBulletin so would renew for the sake of $40. But why $175? Is it a mistake, or is this some mad "we give you less, you pay more" programme?

    Thanks

  • #2
    Erm, is that true?
    Yep.

    There's almost literally a metric ton of threads about this.

    *edit* It's up to you whether or not to renew/upgrade to 4.0. I did it, several times.
    My Live vB5 Site - NZEating.com
    vBulletin Hosting | vBulletin Services - Need hosting for your vB? Need it installed? Something else? Let me take that hassle off your hands.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ace View Post
      Yep.

      There's almost literally a metric ton of threads about this.

      *edit* It's up to you whether or not to renew/upgrade to 4.0. I did it, several times.
      Yeah, sorry... admittedly I didn't search very much on this, I was incredulous and in a rush. </excuses>

      But wow... a few new graphics, and whack the price up over 400%.

      I remember when ubb.threads was great, and they just went down the pan. I thought when I migrated five systems to vBulletin they were a keeper, they really did everything so well... but all good things, goodbye vBulletin. (Yeah I know, my departure won't make a difference...)

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      • #4
        Its a change in licensing structure, 175 covers the cost of the software updates for v4 until it goes EOL.

        Best of luck with whatever you decide to do next

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        • #5
          Wow, what a response from the VB staff. Reminds me of Infopop which I left for VB.

          No wonder so many are upset and looking for alternatives. Ill be staying on 3.8, letting the license run out and someone will have an alterative over the next 2-3 years and Ill migrate then. I've been loyal to VB for years and they have just screwed it all up.
          WNxWakko
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Zachery View Post
            Its a change in licensing structure, 175 covers the cost of the software updates for v4 until it goes EOL.

            Best of luck with whatever you decide to do next
            If that is true, that's not so bad... because v3 has been around for quite a long time (2 or 3 years I think).

            But it doesn't say that on the upgrade page. It just gives $175 for a renewal, which has always been for a year before.

            I just wiped my v4 that I upgraded earlier, and have put it back on 3.8... my thought process was that I'd rather wait on 3.8 and move to another system, rather than invest time in this ridiciulous new undocumented new style system only to replace the software. Now your post has made me wonder if I was rash. Man...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AntonyF View Post
              If that is true, that's not so bad... because v3 has been around for quite a long time (2 or 3 years I think).

              But it doesn't say that on the upgrade page. It just gives $175 for a renewal, which has always been for a year before.

              I just wiped my v4 that I upgraded earlier, and have put it back on 3.8... my thought process was that I'd rather wait on 3.8 and move to another system, rather than invest time in this ridiciulous new undocumented new style system only to replace the software. Now your post has made me wonder if I was rash. Man...
              Having worked with it enough, I know there are people who are loving and enjoying the vBulletin 4 software despite its issues. My best advice would be to install/upgrade vb4 in a test site and see how things go, make up your own mind

              Originally posted by wnxwakko View Post
              Wow, what a response from the VB staff. Reminds me of Infopop which I left for VB.

              No wonder so many are upset and looking for alternatives. Ill be staying on 3.8, letting the license run out and someone will have an alterative over the next 2-3 years and Ill migrate then. I've been loyal to VB for years and they have just screwed it all up.
              I'm sorry, how should I react in your opinion. I genuinely wish him the best in his search for whatever will work for him and I also told him how the new licensing structure works. I try my best to be honest with the customers Theres no reason to wish him illwill.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                Having worked with it enough, I know there are people who are loving and enjoying the vBulletin 4 software despite its issues. My best advice would be to install/upgrade vb4 in a test site and see how things go, make up your own mind
                I did. Same old admin, no new features... I just reverted to v3 (the site is low trafficed enough that it can be a 'test' site sort of).

                Are you vB staff? If so you should make your upgrade page clearer. Old vB veterans like me see renewal as one year, so see $175 as one year. If it's going to last three years (say if v4 lasts that long) then it's not quite so bad value. Although it's still a lot of money for my renewal costs to go from $160 to $700 for no new features right now.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                  I'm sorry, how should I react in your opinion. I genuinely wish him the best in his search for whatever will work for him and I also told him how the new licensing structure works. I try my best to be honest with the customers Theres no reason to wish him illwill.


                  It comes across as if your implying, too bad, nice knowing you in a polite way. That was my impression. So far it seems that VB has no intention of accommodating those who are not willing to fork up $175 to stay on 3.8 and continue receiving patch updates. At this time I refuse to upgrade and use 4.0. I’ve checked it out on a test box and it’s plagued with issues, overtaxing on servers and many oversights in respect to things that should not have been overlooked.

                  Too many directions, lack of developers, too many oversights and it’s basically like Windows Vista and no one seems to care. At least Microsoft recognized the issue and allowed extended support to XP so not to lose all their customers to Mac or Redhat which may have very well happened if they didn’t. They retained the customer base and as result those who skipped XP are now pleased with Windows 7. If you want to retain customers, allow the $40 yearly renewal for 3.8 updates and let those of us that would like to wait for 5.0 when you have had a year or two to work it all out and then you will probably see higher customer retention. Otherwise what you are basically doing is forcing me to look for an alternative.
                  WNxWakko
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wnxwakko View Post

                    It comes across as if your implying, too bad, nice knowing you in a polite way. That was my impression. So far it seems that VB has no intention of accommodating those who are not willing to fork up $175 to stay on 3.8 and continue receiving patch updates. At this time I refuse to upgrade and use 4.0. I’ve checked it out on a test box and it’s plagued with issues, overtaxing on servers and many oversights in respect to things that should not have been overlooked.

                    Too many directions, lack of developers, too many oversights and it’s basically like Windows Vista and no one seems to care. At least Microsoft recognized the issue and allowed extended support to XP so not to lose all their customers to Mac or Redhat which may have very well happened if they didn’t. They retained the customer base and as result those who skipped XP are now pleased with Windows 7. If you want to retain customers, allow the $40 yearly renewal for 3.8 updates and let those of us that would like to wait for 5.0 when you have had a year or two to work it all out and then you will probably see higher customer retention. Otherwise what you are basically doing is forcing me to look for an alternative.
                    +1

                    Zachary, you shouldn't be able to talk directly with customers. That was an arrogant response and implied that you couldn't care less that he was leaving.

                    vBulletin will die if it treats it's customers this way. I don't have nearly as many complaints about vB4 as everyone else but when a company becomes arrogant, it makes me want to rebel and quit giving you my business.

                    Lastly, I agree that the pricing has become ridiculous.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wnxwakko View Post

                      I’ve checked it out on a test box and it’s plagued with issues, overtaxing on servers and many oversights in respect to things that should not have been overlooked.
                      Unless I misunderstood you, you haven''t an active 4x licence. So my question is how did you get hold of vb 4 that you tested it out at your test box?

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                      • #12
                        Yah I also couldn't believe what I heard when I read that post

                        Anyways I haven't used vbulletin in about a year now. The first one I got was a lease for $80 for a year, I wanted to renew it but had no point the website was going down the drain. Now I have a new idea for a website so I was looking into getting a vbulletin forum again but the prices sky rocketed. I remember the price being $160 to own a license and like $80 to lease it but now the price of a owned one is $195 thats almost a $40 dollar raise... crazyyy.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by borbole View Post
                          Unless I misunderstood you, you haven''t an active 4x licence. So my question is how did you get hold of vb 4 that you tested it out at your test box?

                          A few of my administrators have sites of their own and one of them purchased the upgrade to 4.0. I happen to share a local test box with one of my administrators and we also have a private network established between our production servers so we can backup to each other’s servers. So I had a chance to check it out top to bottom. He regrets buying it and I am glad I didn't after being able to see just how many issues and oversights there are. Also I have all the Beta copies which were available for me to download from the members area.

                          For the most part the only added feature in 4.0 that makes it different from 3.x is the CMS which is a poorly designed. I already purchased Project Tools when it came out and it’s poor with no updates and the Blogs I also purchased which is average but still again lacks improvements. So they packaged up two underdeveloped paid features and expanded to another underdeveloped feature and made it 10x more difficult to manage customizations in your styles. There is no benefit to goto 4.0. Unless they revolutionize the Blogs and Project tools to bring them up to standard to the forum and backtrack to resolve many permission and functional issues they dropped the ball on, what is the advantage? More headache for not much. I have my own CMS which I’ve designed over the years that allow me to port whatever data out of the forums I want so the CMS is not valuable to me. If I just want the forums there isn’t anything special about it and if I want to keep my blogs I have to buy the suite which is also overpriced.

                          Just let me keep 3.8 and grandfather me into your new pricing model paying old pricing and just don’t give me access to 4.0. When 5.0 comes out in 3 years then maybe I’ll step up and upgrade or maybe by 4.6 or so they will have remedied many of the oversights. Until then I just don’t see them making much headway on this. And now I get the impression they really dont care and its basically if we dont like it then leave.

                          Remember VB, it takes 10x more money and effort to get a new customer than it does to keep an existing. Dont get such a big head that you forget about why all of us have been loyal customers for the last 7-10 years.
                          Last edited by wnxwakko; Sat 20 Mar '10, 3:46pm.
                          WNxWakko
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wnxwakko View Post
                            For the most part the only added feature in 4.0 that makes it different from 3.x is the CMS which is a poorly designed.
                            Which isn't something I'll buy anyway... I use Wordpress, and I wouldn't want to switch a widely-supported, years-old, open-source CMS which I enjoy for a brand new unproven closed source system.

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                            • #15
                              Just one more message on this topic, as I did stir up a bit of a hornet's nest.

                              Infopop back in the day would remove any messages that didn't fit with their world view, and even banned you if you spoke against them. So if vBulletin say "good luck" (which caused some contention above), then I think good on them because it could be worse. At least they allow such discussions.

                              It's all about numbers. They will lose my four licenses worth $40 a year each. But they only have to sell one new license to cover those four. That means they get the same money for only a quarter of the support burden and at the same time reposition the product as more high-end I guess. It's disappointing, but they have the right to do it and I have the right to go elsehwhere. That's the free economy!

                              Would it be pushing my luck to ask other people's ideas for alternative systems? I'm really liking the look of MyBB. phpBB I don't want to touch due to all the security exploits a few years back, but maybe they've improved.

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