Grumpy... but I'm considering upgrading.

[Photics]

I dropped VBulletin after the disappointment with the blog plug-in. I switched WordPress to the VBulletin blog. My members didn't seem to care for it and my traffic went down. WordPress was just better... and it's free.

If I use WordPress, I have a mediocre CMS, an excellent blog and lousy forums.
If I use VBulletin, I have a lousy CMS, an excellent forum and mediocre blogs.

I've tested so many systems. For almost a decade of searching, why can't all three parts be awesome with one CMS? I don't want to have to mess with hacks or plug-ins... only to see my hard work ruined with a software update or security exploit.

So, I get an email that tells me I can upgrade to VBulletin 4.0. Oh wow... better hurry... end of October was the deadline for upgrading. Heh... no wait... now it's mid-November. I was ready to dismiss the email, but I decided to check out what's going on. It seems that the upgrade might actually be pretty good for my website.

But is VBulletin 4.0 an excellent CMS, excellent forum and an excellent blog?


So far, I'm concerned. Just in the short minutes that it took to post. I found two bugs with the message form. (I'm using IE 8.0)...

• Hard to click the message body field after entering a title. I'll click the box but the cursor doesn't appear. I have to keep clicking it to make it work.
• After clicking a smiley, it get's stuck on the end of the cursor. It's difficult to put text after the smiley.

So... did the forum get worse? It seems a little floaty... like the switch from tables to divs hasn't quite been mastered yet. But since the competition also has some flaws, VBulletin might become the best of the worst.

These are my pre-sales Questions. Money is tight right now. I can't waste it like I did in the past, but I'm seriously considering upgrading to VBulletin 4.0

1. Did you improve the way the system handles templates? In other words... am I going to have to fix/update my templates every time VBulletin does a minor update? I hate having to go back and fix the templates because something was changed with VBulletin code.
2. Can I specify a template per category? If have a sports section, the template should have a sports theme... while the movies section should have a movie theme. In other words... I run a Guild Wars fansite as part of my main site. When someone looks at a Guild Wars related page, the page layout should have a Guild Wars look.
   
   (I saw "Powerful Template Engine: Ability to create multiple styles which can be applied to different pages, articles, forums, users, or even the smallest box." on the features page. Does that mean I can create a template for Guild Wars content and a separate template for my main website content? I also saw "Each Section can have unique layout and style". So... the answer seems to be yes. )
3. Does the CMS have contributor / editor / publisher support? This is important. The idea is that I would have a lot of writers for the CMS, but only limited access for editing and publishing.
   
   (I saw "Single Permission System" on the features page. Does that mean I can assign roles to users?)
4. What's been improved with the Blog? Is it still mediocre? (Last time, the blogs were hidden from the main site.)

So far, it's looking like VBulletin is becoming a Good CMS, an Excellent forum and still a mediocre blog. Does that seem like a fair and accurate assessment?

[cbiweb]

All I can say is that you're looking at a beta product, still in flux, and any bugs you find now will be gone for the gold release. Everyone should be judging the product by what it DOES have at this point, not what it doesn't.

I am fully confident that this version of vBulletin will be awesome.

[[PGS]MikalMirkas]

If I use WordPress, I have a mediocre CMS, an excellent blog and lousy forums.
If I use VBulletin, I have a lousy CMS, an excellent forum and mediocre blogs.
So far, it's looking like VBulletin is becoming a Good CMS, an Excellent forum and still a mediocre blog. Does that seem like a fair and accurate assessment?

The blogs are ok, but if you wanted, you could always integrate them with Wordpress. There is a bridge at vB.org, but I think you can do it without a modification.

[Photics]

I am fully confident that this version of vBulletin will be awesome.

You know, I'm starting to think that it will be awesome too. I pretty much answered my own questions.

...but does it have contributor (author) / editor / publisher support?

Everyone should be judging the product by what it DOES have at this point, not what it doesn't.

I disagree with this. I was optimistic with the blogging software... but optimism alone doesn't run great websites.

The blogs are ok, but if you wanted, you could always integrate them with Wordpress. There is a bridge at vB.org, but I think you can do it without a modification.

The problem is that my VBulletin license is up. I don't want to run an insecure version. If I renew, I might as well pick up the CMS. Right now, I'm deciding how much of my site it could be involved with.

[cellarius]

But is VBulletin 4.0 an excellent CMS, excellent forum and an excellent blog?

Realistically, you can't expect vBCMS to be at the very same level that WP, Drupal etc are on after years of development. The CMS in vB4.0 will be a very good start, and it will get improved over time, and probably quickly I daresay, as the 4.x-versions are rolled out.

So far, I'm concerned. Just in the short minutes that it took to post. I found two bugs with the message form. (I'm using IE 8.0)...

It's not that big a surprise that you would find bugs in a beta-software. After all, that's the whole point of running a beta on a live site - finding bugs. If there weren't any, it wouldn't be beta, but gold. Both bugs you mentioned are known.

[*]Did you improve the way the system handles templates? In other words... am I going to have to fix/update my templates every time VBulletin does a minor update? I hate having to go back and fix the templates because something was changed with VBulletin code.

The templates have been completely reworked, and yes, there's a new three way temlate merging system that will be able to handle most situations.

[*]Can I specify a template per category? If have a sports section, the template should have a sports theme... while the movies section should have a movie theme. In other words... I run a Guild Wars fansite as part of my main site. When someone looks at a Guild Wars related page, the page layout should have a Guild Wars look.

Yes, the style can be defined per section in the CMS.

(I saw "Powerful Template Engine: Ability to create multiple styles which can be applied to different pages, articles, forums, users, or even the smallest box." on the features page. Does that mean I can create a template for Guild Wars content and a separate template for my main website content? I also saw "Each Section can have unique layout and style". So... the answer seems to be yes. )

It is yes.

[*]Does the CMS have contributor / editor / publisher support? This is important. The idea is that I would have a lot of writers for the CMS, but only limited access for editing and publishing.

Yes, there are permissions to read, create, edit and publish content.

(I saw "Single Permission System" on the features page. Does that mean I can assign roles to users?)

It's essentialy integrated into the permission system of the forums: it's usergroup based, and everything you can do with it also applies to the CMS.

[*]What's been improved with the Blog? Is it still mediocre? (Last time, the blogs were hidden from the main site.)

Call the CMS page, there you see a widget that pulls the last blog posts. You can place that anywhere you like in the layout grid. And of course blog is part of the new cross-content search.

So far, it's looking like VBulletin is becoming a Good CMS, an Excellent forum and still a mediocre blog. Does that seem like a fair and accurate assessment?

Don't know about the mediocre blog. You need to offer criteria what defines a good blog for you.

[Photics]

Realistically, you can't expect vBCMS to be at the very same level that WP, Drupal etc are on after years of development. The CMS in vB4.0 will be a very good start, and it will get improved over time, and probably quickly I daresay, as the 4.x-versions are rolled out.

Actually, I wasn't all that impressed with Drupal or Joomla. I find it easier to administrate a VBulletin product. That saves me time. I don't want to have to rely on plugins or hacks to get things done. With Open Source, there's always the concern that the project leaders will lose interest. True, there are risks with commercial projects too. Yet, it seems that VBulletin is moving towards a more active future.

The templates have been completely reworked, and yes, there's a new three way temlate merging system that will be able to handle most situations.
Yes, the style can be defined per section in the CMS.
It is yes.
Yes, there are permissions to read, create, edit and publish content.

Those are exciting changes.

Don't know about the mediocre blog. You need to offer criteria what defines a good blog for you.

Well, when I used the blog at my website (earlier this year), it didn't seem so great. For example, the article icon was just my avatar... over and over and over again. Users should be able to specify category icons... or article icons... to break up the repetitive look. Also, I don't remember it supporting multiple pages. I like the <!--more--> and <!--nextpage--> options in WordPress. I went back to the forum for VBulletin Blog suggestions and feedback. Someone was keeping a list of features that should be added. I looked for that thread, but I couldn't find it.

The blog is not so important... not as important as site-wide integration. It should be seemless, only looking different when I want it to. Single-Sign on and one administrative interface is good. I won't have to worry about keeping three separate systems working together - not if they're designed that way. Cross-content search is an important feature too.

I'm starting to get less grumpy. Maybe I was just hungry. Sometimes I get so wrapped up in this stuff that I forget to eat. Ha Ha! I think I'll go make a sandwich for myself.

Good replies and good discussion here!

[cellarius]

Enjoy the sandwich

[cbiweb]

Everyone should be judging the product by what it DOES have at this point, not what it doesn't.

I disagree with this. I was optimistic with the blogging software... but optimism alone doesn't run great websites.

I'm talking judging the product, not critiquing it. There is a difference.

[Photics]

I'm talking judging the product, not critiquing it. There is a difference.

Well... that's fair to say... but I was grumpy for two reasons. One, I was hungry... my sandwich was delicious... but the other is past experience. I don't want to feel like this is a VBulletin money grab. If I spend the money for the upgrade, how is it going to help my site? Will it save me time? Will it attract more visitors? Will it add new features to my website? It seems so. I think I can look past the previous problems with the blog. I'm tired of switching software. It would be nice to stay with just one good system.

I'm looking forward to the beta. I'll probably be upgrading.