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  • TheChaosFactor
    replied
    Originally posted by slinky View Post
    It's really impressive when the best forum software uses the same business model as your bacon cheeseburger that lasts all of 20 minutes. But if you use the percentages, your $1 bacon cheeseburger now costs you over $3. You better stop eating the other two meals a day just to have your cheeseburger.
    Bacon cheeseburgers don't use a business model. Just like vbulletin forum software doesn't use a business model. Trying a little too hard to be cute here, and you're failing.

    Edit: The company that produces that bacon cheeseburger has been internationally successful for over a decade with this business model, so I'd say there's something working with it.

    So breakeven comes two years AFTER vbulletin is supposedly going to release version 5 and possibly even version 6, making version 4 long obsolete. So this savings leaves you far from breaking even and has you suffering a whopper of a loss.
    I have not seen anywhere that vb5 is supposed to be out in 2 years. Can you provide a reference link to this?


    Sorry, but that would be $190 for the cheeseburger since the maintenance just recently expired. That means extra cost was $150, almost 4 times the amount it used to be for a product that may not be used at all. How about this - my client will sell you his license for the guaranteed sale number of $240. You can resell it and make money. We'll send you the paypal information shortly.
    Your client should fire you. Your reading and comprehension skills are terrible, and you obviously did a terrible job in advising him to let him have his maintenance expire. Your math skills must be from public school as well, because I said a resell value of $220 on the suite should be reasonable. Where you came up with $240 is beyond me. Besides, I just got mine for $130.

    I'll take your clients pay pal info though so I can let him know there is better representation to be had than some guy with poor comprehension skills and no understanding of mathematics.

    Leave a comment:


  • slinky
    replied
    Originally posted by TheChaosFactor View Post
    Yeah, pretty much. Kinda like the time I drove to Wendy's far a Jr Bacon cheeseburger with $1.06 in my pocket($1 + tax) only to find out that the price had been raised, overnight, to $1.10 + tax. It's business, and while it's not admirable by any means, it's a standard business model.
    It's really impressive when the best forum software uses the same business model as your bacon cheeseburger that lasts all of 20 minutes. But if you use the percentages, your $1 bacon cheeseburger now costs you over $3. You better stop eating the other two meals a day just to have your cheeseburger.

    The fact is, however, I will never recognize a savings or even a break even point on those dam Jr Bacon cheeseburgers, but as I pointed out in that post, if you are going to remain with vb for 3-4 years, you will see a break even point between year 3 and 4 and actually begin saving at the start of year 4.
    So breakeven comes two years AFTER vbulletin is supposedly going to release version 5 and possibly even version 6, making version 4 long obsolete. So this savings leaves you far from breaking even and has you suffering a whopper of a loss.

    So worst case, you spend $130 now. Keep it for a year(or less). You would have spent $40-$60 to renew the license anyway. We'll say $40. That means your extra cost was $90. If you can't sell your one year old, never expiring vb4 license for more than $90, then shame on you when the full price is $285 for suite and $190 for forum alone. At $90 it's a guaranteed sale for either, and the numbers get better if you are with vb for 2 years even. Not to mention if you sell it for more than $90, which would be logical. I'd say $200 for suite and $120 for forums alone would be an easy sale on a barely used license.
    Sorry, but that would be $190 for the cheeseburger since the maintenance just recently expired. That means extra cost was $150, almost 4 times the amount it used to be for a product that may not be used at all. How about this - my client will sell you his license for the guaranteed sale number of $240. You can resell it and make money. We'll send you the paypal information shortly.

    Just sayin that even those who don't want vb4 can benefit from taking advantage of the presale if they plan to be vb customers over the next couple years anyway. But I get that it sucks. I'm about to make the purchase with money I really didn't want to spend this week, since it would've been much more convenient to have another two weeks so I wasn't paying on rent week, but the long term savings is rather undeniable in my opinion.
    With advantages like this, who needs disadvantages? Sorry Wayne, couldn't help myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • slinky
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    No, you can continue receiving bug fixes and security patches on your 3.8.X license until it expires or is EOL which ever comes first.
    He can continue running the software he has installed indefinitely.
    Wayne, thank you for speaking up. So what if expiration comes first and my client is only at 3.8.2? What does he do? We know he can run his license. We just don't know whether he can upgrade to 3.8.4 without having to buy the entire vb4 upgrade which everyone here seems to say is the only option.

    The answers already provided in this thread are accurate, this is outlined in the FAQ and we have answered numerous other threads about the same issue.
    What answers? That you can upgrade the license to suite for $190 or upgrade just the forum for $175? We know this. What about the option to renew the expired 3.x license just to receive the remaining 3.x updates and security patches from the point that the client's license expires? To make it simple, what if the client's license expired in March and he just wants to update just the 3.x package from there?

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by slinky View Post
    I've been waiting for an official word from vBulletin Internet Services before coming to that conclusion that if a customer owns and wants to just stick with the 3.8.4 product, they are being forced to pay $190 for a vb4 license they will never use.
    No, you can continue receiving bug fixes and security patches on your 3.8.X license until it expires or is EOL which ever comes first.
    For example, if a customer owns a 3.8.1 license or similar and just wants to stick with the 3.x product, he/she is being forced to cought up $190 for an upgrade to vb4 just to get to and stay with 3.8.4.
    We've now got 3 days to figure this out. As a consultant and developer, it's not a great position to be in.[/quote] No. He can continue running the software he has installed indefinitely.

    I'm wondering why nobody official just wants to weigh in on this.
    The answers already provided in this thread are accurate, this is outlined in the FAQ and we have answered numerous other threads about the same issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheChaosFactor
    replied
    Originally posted by slinky View Post
    So it sucks that customers who don't want to upgrade to v4 will have to upgrade for $130 or $175 just to be current with the 3.x version and customers who let their license expire recently not knowing about the presale will have to pay $175 or 190... and it just sucks because that has to be because of... what exactly? Because they can be forced to pay up?

    Yeah, pretty much. Kinda like the time I drove to Wendy's far a Jr Bacon cheeseburger with $1.06 in my pocket($1 + tax) only to find out that the price had been raised, overnight, to $1.10 + tax. It's business, and while it's not admirable by any means, it's a standard business model.

    The fact is, however, I will never recognize a savings or even a break even point on those dam Jr Bacon cheeseburgers, but as I pointed out in that post, if you are going to remain with vb for 3-4 years, you will see a break even point between year 3 and 4 and actually begin saving at the start of year 4. If you are not staying with vb for more than a year or two, than you effectively save back $80 of the $130 by not purchasing yearly upgrade plans, and can sell your never expiring vb4 license for a fair discount and completely recoup the rest of your loss, if not a little extra.

    So worst case, you spend $130 now. Keep it for a year(or less). You would have spent $40-$60 to renew the license anyway. We'll say $40. That means your extra cost was $90. If you can't sell your one year old, never expiring vb4 license for more than $90, then shame on you when the full price is $285 for suite and $190 for forum alone. At $90 it's a guaranteed sale for either, and the numbers get better if you are with vb for 2 years even. Not to mention if you sell it for more than $90, which would be logical. I'd say $200 for suite and $120 for forums alone would be an easy sale on a barely used license.

    Just sayin that even those who don't want vb4 can benefit from taking advantage of the presale if they plan to be vb customers over the next couple years anyway. But I get that it sucks. I'm about to make the purchase with money I really didn't want to spend this week, since it would've been much more convenient to have another two weeks so I wasn't paying on rent week, but the long term savings is rather undeniable in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • slinky
    replied
    Originally posted by TheChaosFactor View Post
    I don't work here either, but if you read my last post you will see that a one time fee of $130 to get vb4 Suite, is much more nominal over the course of 3-4 years than paying $40-$60 a year. And if your forum doesn't last long enough to see that wash out, then the upgrade still will carry a higher resale value. It sucks, and I hate that they're doing this this way, but at $130 you simply can't lose.... unless they drop the full price after a year.
    So it sucks that customers who don't want to upgrade to v4 will have to upgrade for $130 or $175 just to be current with the 3.x version and customers who let their license expire recently not knowing about the presale will have to pay $175 or 190... and it just sucks because that has to be because of... what exactly? Because they can be forced to pay up?

    Leave a comment:


  • TheChaosFactor
    replied
    Originally posted by McJ View Post
    Hi Dismounted.

    Thank you for your reply. When I purchased an 'owned license' I agreed to pay a 'nominal annual fee' to keep my vBulletin 3.8.4 installation secure. At this time I do not wish to upgrade to vBulletin 4.x. However, as a responsible platform provider I do wish to continue to provide my forum members with a secure software environment. Therefore, I request a system in place whereby I can, as agreed, continue to pay a 'nominal fee' in order to have access to patches and security updates for my 3.8.4 installation.

    I look forward to your reply.
    I don't work here either, but if you read my last post you will see that a one time fee of $130 to get vb4 Suite, is much more nominal over the course of 3-4 years than paying $40-$60 a year. And if your forum doesn't last long enough to see that wash out, then the upgrade still will carry a higher resale value.

    It sucks, and I hate that they're doing this this way, but at $130 you simply can't lose.... unless they drop the full price after a year.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheChaosFactor
    replied
    Originally posted by slinky View Post
    (1) Why is everyone being forced to go to vb4 or face losing support that remains for vb3? What is the option, if any, for people whose vb3 licenses just expired in July-September and want to stick with the latest version of vb3?
    They're not. It's already been said that current license holders will be able to upgrade until their maintenance period is over. People who currently have vb3 probably shouldn't be expecting many more updates as it is, I'm guessing, unless they're necessary for security. The people who expired in July would be looking at $60 this year for updates and $40-$60 next year. That's $100-$120 over 2 years, and $140-$180 over 3. This upgrade will be a wash and probably a savings by the time vb5 is introduced.

    (2) The whole vb4 is free is a half truth. You may get the first upgrade to vb4 but at some point during the development cycle you are going to have to pay even more to upgrade it again because you'll be out of updates during the vb4 product cycle! Quite frankly, for someone who paid full price for a license just a month ago, they sure aren't feeling good about having to pay $130 now or probably about $200 later.
    Hey, I get it. My license isn't even 2 months old. I mean the way I see it, I JUST spent $180. Now I get to spend $130 by Friday or $300 later(Suite). So in essence, I'm paying $310 for the right to use vb4 suite instead of the full price of $285. Of course, technically my unused cost is $150 since I've used it for almost two months and 180/12 is $15 per month. But the fact is, as I stated above, over the course of the life of vb4 we will all either spend the same or less compared to what yearly upgrades were going to cost us.

    Believe me, if it weren't for that, I'd surely pay the $130 to upgrade, ride out a year or so with my current version of vb, and then sell my license at a slight discount. I'm already considering, but the more I think about this, it seems like the only down side is coming off of $130 on such short notice(which is pushy and rude).

    Leave a comment:


  • Dismounted
    replied
    I will repost a disclaimer, as above: I am not employed by vBulletin Solutions Inc., but a volunteer working on vBulletin.org. I am a customer like you.

    The previously offered renewal product has been discontinued. AFAIK, when you purchased an Owned License, you purchased the right to use the software indefinitely, and to receive updates at an extra cost; a 'nominal fee' you call it. This extra cost is now $175 if you wish for updates to the Forum package only, and $130 during the pre-sale for the Suite.

    Leave a comment:


  • McJ
    replied
    Originally posted by Dismounted View Post
    There is no "3.x license". It is either an Owned License or a Leased License in the old system. To continue to receive updates to vBulletin after the support expiry on these licenses, you must upgrade to a Forum Classic or Publishing Suite license.
    Hi Dismounted.

    Thank you for your reply. When I purchased an 'owned license' I agreed to pay a 'nominal annual fee' to keep my vBulletin 3.8.4 installation secure. At this time I do not wish to upgrade to vBulletin 4.x. However, as a responsible platform provider I do wish to continue to provide my forum members with a secure software environment. Therefore, I request a system in place whereby I can, as agreed, continue to pay a 'nominal fee' in order to have access to patches and security updates for my 3.8.4 installation.

    I look forward to your reply.

    Leave a comment:


  • slinky
    replied
    Originally posted by TheChaosFactor View Post
    My understanding is that upgrading to JUST the forum software is free if you have a current, owned license, and that after that owned license is out of it's update/maintenace period you can still use 3.x or 4.x as long as you wish, but without the ability to upgrade to later versions. I can agree that it seems logical to do the upgrade now, unless vb5 is set for 2011 or something.
    (1) Why is everyone being forced to go to vb4 or face losing support that remains for vb3? What is the option, if any, for people whose vb3 licenses just expired in July-September and want to stick with the latest version of vb3?

    (2) The whole vb4 is free is a half truth. You may get the first upgrade to vb4 but at some point during the development cycle you are going to have to pay even more to upgrade it again because you'll be out of updates during the vb4 product cycle! Quite frankly, for someone who paid full price for a license just a month ago, they sure aren't feeling good about having to pay $130 now or probably about $200 later.

    Leave a comment:


  • slinky
    replied
    Originally posted by Dismounted View Post
    Actually, if a customer wants to stick with vBulletin 3 - the cheaper way to go would be to buy the Suite for $130 during the pre-sale. An upgrade to Forum Classic is $175 - there is no pre-sale on this price.

    Just to clear any confusion - I am not employed by vBulletin Solutions Inc., I am a volunteer working on vBulletin.org.
    Thanks, I appreciate at least someone speaking up who is in some way affiliated with vBulletin. It's been several days with no answer.

    The point is that if a customer wants to stick with vBulletin 3.x and just get to 3.8.4 or the latest version of 3.x as they assumed they could have until October 15, there is no maintenance upgrade being offered or equivalent. So the only logical conclusion is either (a) this was completely missed by the vBulletin team and they will address, or (b) they didn't miss anything and are telling customers they must pay $175 or can throw away their licenses entirely because they won't allow customers to just stick with what they thought they had, an ability to ride out v3.8. As I said, I don't want to assume because the latter conclusion seems to reflect poorly on integrity and reasonableness in this offer and in treatment of current customers.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheChaosFactor
    replied
    My understanding is that upgrading to JUST the forum software is free if you have a current, owned license, and that after that owned license is out of it's update/maintenace period you can still use 3.x or 4.x as long as you wish, but without the ability to upgrade to later versions. I can agree that it seems logical to do the upgrade now, unless vb5 is set for 2011 or something.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dismounted
    replied
    Actually, if a customer wants to stick with vBulletin 3 - the cheaper way to go would be to buy the Suite for $130 during the pre-sale. An upgrade to Forum Classic is $175 - there is no pre-sale on this price.

    Just to clear any confusion - I am not employed by vBulletin Solutions Inc., I am a volunteer working on vBulletin.org.

    Leave a comment:


  • slinky
    replied
    Originally posted by Dismounted View Post
    There is no "3.x license". It is either an Owned License or a Leased License in the old system. To continue to receive updates to vBulletin after the support expiry on these licenses, you must upgrade to a Forum Classic or Publishing Suite license.
    I've been waiting for an official word from vBulletin Internet Services before coming to that conclusion that if a customer owns and wants to just stick with the 3.8.4 product, they are being forced to pay $190 for a vb4 license they will never use.

    For example, if a customer owns a 3.8.1 license or similar and just wants to stick with the 3.x product, he/she is being forced to cought up $190 for an upgrade to vb4 just to get to and stay with 3.8.4. As someone else said, that's either telling the customer to sit with their worthless dog or be "resourceful" if they don't care to pay such a bounty. We've now got 3 days to figure this out. As a consultant and developer, it's not a great position to be in. I'm wondering why nobody official just wants to weigh in on this.

    Leave a comment:

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