vb 3.x Security Updates Going forward

[slinky]

It's Tuesday afternoon now...

[Zachery]

You can see the support cycle here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...pport-Schedule

When 3.8 hits EOL, support/security patches/ etc will stop.

[slinky]

You can see the support cycle here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...pport-Schedule

When 3.8 hits EOL, support/security patches/ etc will stop.

Thanks Zachery. It still doesn't answer the question. I just give up. The answer must be if you have a version prior to 3.8.4pl2 that recently expired (a) you must pay $190 to upgrade to vb4 suite or (b) you must pay $175 to upgrade to vb4 forums or (c) you simply can't update your 3.x software to just stay current with that version. If you do, you must be resourceful.

[Dismounted]

The answer must be if you have a version prior to 3.8.4pl2 that recently expired (a) you must pay $190 to upgrade to vb4 suite or (b) you must pay $175 to upgrade to vb4 forums or (c) you simply can't update your 3.x software to just stay current with that version.

You've summed it up. I'm not sure what more of an answer you want. The previous licenses were not tied to any version, they were just for "vBulletin". They have provided a "renewal" path for you, if you choose to take it, and that is described in your options "a" and "b". Think of the cost as the old renewal cost for two years (+ a bit ).

[slinky]

You've summed it up. I'm not sure what more of an answer you want. The previous licenses were not tied to any version, they were just for "vBulletin". They have provided a "renewal" path for you, if you choose to take it, and that is described in your options "a" and "b". Think of the cost as the old renewal cost for two years (+ a bit ).

So this is the closest I will get to "official" from vBulletin. One day someone woke up and told me, a long time customer, that I couldn't spend my $40 any more to keep my vBulletin 3 product current. I have no other choice but to spend over 400% to buy a product upgrade I don't want/need because the company could decided that they had the legal right to do that to me. Got it.

Perhaps I should have called the options given to a long time customer (f1) and (f2)

[TinyClanger]

So this is the closest I will get to "official" from vBulletin. One day someone woke up and told me, a long time customer, that I couldn't spend my $40 any more to keep my vBulletin 3 product current. I have no other choice but to spend over 400% to buy a product upgrade I don't want/need because the company could decided that they had the legal right to do that to me. Got it.

Perhaps I should have called the options given to a long time customer (f1) and (f2)

I have to side with slinky, here. I have two licenses, one of which expired at the weekend. While it's clear that I am able to continue using the most recent version as of that point, it is still not in the least bit clear what I have to do to ensure I can update it with subsequent security patches. I have no need for the publishing suite and no time to upgrade and reskin a new version right now. Esepcially as 4.0 has yet to be released.



I already have a support ticket open and last response I've had from that is:

Hello, we are currently reviewing security update access where someone doesn't renew. As soon as I have official word on this, I will let you know.

That was 3 days ago and I've had nothing since.*


The question is a simple one and I'll try to phrase it in as unambiguous a way as possible:*


Do you intend to allow existing 3.x customers to continue maintenance without upgrading to 4.0 and if not, what access will they have to security updates after their maintenance expires?

I am unable to find a clear answer to this question and I'm also unable to find a reason as to*why this question hasn't been answered. As a result, I (and I suspect everyone else in the same position) can only assume that there is a policy in place to be deliberately evasive in order to frighten as many people as possible into needlessly upgrading. I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong.


Terry.

[slinky]

Terry - it seems that the answer here is to take all these issues to support and not discuss them in public. It figures. I'm not going to dwell on this issue and it's clear we aren't going to get an answer in the forums so I'm going to make this, perhaps, my last post. I found this post by the CEO of Internet Brands very interesting.

You may have noticed that we’ve priced vB 4 products to strongly encourage adoption of the Suite by offering a much larger discount on the Suite. This is very intentional. We now view vBulletin Publishing Suite as our core product.

Noticed? I thought someone dropped a piano on me. $175 to just upgrade my forum when a new forum is $195? It's clear. The goal here is to practically force every vBulletin forum owner to convert their cms and other products into the "vBulletin Publishing Suite" by making the price so high as not to be worth it to just upgrade your forum. At least now we have our answer in public as to the reasons for these pricing options that don't seem equitable. There is an agenda.

[Dismounted]

Do you intend to allow existing 3.x customers to continue maintenance without upgrading to 4.0 and if not, what access will they have to security updates after their maintenance expires?

The existing renewal product has been discontinued, and a replacement for it issued. You will always have access to security patches (e.g. "Patch Level 1"), regardless of license status.

[Reeve of Shinra]

Dismounted:

Security Patches are designed for the latest stable version in that branch. Some patches seem to require nothing short of upgrading to the next point release (or so I recall on a couple of occasions). That means if someone has 3.6.8 today and 3.6.9 is released next month and 3.6.9 PL1 is released the month after, you may not be able to use the security patches on a 3.6.8 version. Again, that being the case in the past. Am I mistaken about any of this?

[ManagerJosh]

It is my experience when Jelsoft was running things that security patches were always tried to be made free and available to all license holders. However, there could always be that rare one instance where the patching a security flaw was simply and the changes made were huge and it required you to purchase an update if your license had no more update credits.

[Ihsan's Knife]

I think if vB4 is presented as a new product. The security update for vB3.8 should continue. It is not reasonable to expect for security update for vB2 etc. However vB3.8 is the current release version, it should be the software provider's responsibility to provide minimum security maintainence, instead of forced upgrade.

This is oh so true. I kind of feel bullied into buying 4.0, which I honestly am not sure about doing, merely because security upgrades will stop.

[TinyClanger]

The existing renewal product has been discontinued, and a replacement for it issued. You will always have access to security patches (e.g. "Patch Level 1"), regardless of license status.

Perhaps I should stop complaining. After all, 4.0 has been out for weeks and we told at least 6 months back that this change was coming so I had plenty of time to raise any concerns.



Oh, no, wait, that's right.*4.0 isn't even in Beta yet and this system went live without even 24 hours' grace.*


First I heard was October 13th, when the new system was dropped on us. On October 4th I got a standard 'Your maintenance is due to expire' email. Allow me to quote it:

Renewal for an owned license is $60. If you renew before 60 days after the expiration date of your license, you can renew for the discounted price of $40. Renewals for leased licenses are $100 and renewals for phone support vary according to the length of the phone support contract.

Note that there's not a hint of any plan to drop this sytem a mere 9 days later.*


If I am entitled as part of my owned license to any security updates and bug fixes to my owned license regardless of the state of my maintenance, can someone tell me what I'd have bought if I'd renewed upon receipt of that email? The system was quite happy to let me spend $60 on it. I still have a license on* maintenance that expires in August next year. I was still expecting 3.9 to come around during its lifetime, but what value does that have now?*


Now, suddenly, I'm supposed to be grateful for this wonderfully generous opportunity to upgrade to a piece of unreleased software that I don't want at 4 times the renewal cost. *(If I shut up and do it quickly)


Still, my only offical response from support is 'I don't know, I'll get back to you.' and there's no clear line on how VB intends to support customers that have active maintenance through next year. Do they guarantee that they will continue to maintain 3.8 until every last maintenance contract has expired? I haven't seen that in writing yet and that EOL schedule doesn't give any timescales.*


Surely someone over there can see that if hundreds of paying customers are very angry at how this has been handled then there might be a case to answer, but we're still being stonewalled. (Please, send me another link to a CEO post about visons and strategies. I love those.)

(Sorry, Dismounted, my ire isn't directed at you in any way. Yours is just as close to an official response as I've heard so far)

Terry.

[Dismounted]

If I am entitled as part of my owned license to any security updates and bug fixes to my owned license regardless of the state of my maintenance, can someone tell me what I'd have bought if I'd renewed upon receipt of that email?

vBulletin releases security updates (i.e. patch levels) free-of-charge as a goodwill gesture. When your license's support period expires, you lose access to any releases apart from those said patch level releases.

Do they guarantee that they will continue to maintain 3.8 until every last maintenance contract has expired? I haven't seen that in writing yet and that EOL schedule doesn't give any timescales.

An owned license that still has a support period left on it will still be able to download the latest version of vBulletin Forum Classic, this includes vBulletin 4. So there is no bearing on your argument, as the customer can always update to the lastest available version of vBulletin as per their contract. I would expect vBulletin 4.2 to be at least a year away, by then, most of those contracts would have expired (4.2 is also when 3.8 is declared End-of-Life).

Sorry, Dismounted, my ire isn't directed at you in any way. Yours is just as close to an official response as I've heard so far

Good to know that you know I'm a customer like yourself.

[snoopy5]

The existing renewal product has been discontinued, and a replacement for it issued. You will always have access to security patches (e.g. "Patch Level 1"), regardless of license status.

o.k., just to be sure. I am only interested in security fixes after expiration date for my current vb licences. Nothing else.

Is this REALLY the official statement from now on? Or will there be "games" later on again that this or that sexurity fix are not available for expired vb 3.8x, because it is to hard to encode it and we have then to buy a new vb4 licence as soon as my vb3.8x licence expired?

I need a clear, one way answer on this. No bull****ting, no "if", no back and forth or answers to gain time. I want to have the answer NOW. An answer, you should have given us already 3 weeks ago.

I pay for your products and I want to know what I get for this. Otherwise I will leave and will send all my clients to IPB or phpbb3 from now on. And others will do the same, when they read about these games here.

[Dismounted]

Is this REALLY the official statement from now on?

It's always been the "official statement". It hasn't changed. Even previously, before the "IB takeover", you were able to download security patches on expired licenses. vBulletin 3.8 will be supported until the release of vBulletin 4.2. Full stop. The only caveat is that patches are released for the newest available version in that branch. The patches mostly work on previous versions of that particular branch, but there's no guarantee. Actually, to be honest, I haven't really seen a patch that couldn't be used on an older version of the branch.

I re-iterate again, I am not vBulletin Solutions staff. Do not take me to be so. I am a customer just like you.