vB Forum 4.0 upgrade no longer free!

[tickedon]

Wayne,

I think most of the grumbling would go away if people with inactive licence didn't have to pay almost 90% of the new price to upgrade their licences to the new version 4, I would bite the bullet and go with it to be honest, but I find that path is not open to me on one of my licences, I just think existing customers are being alienated by Jelsoft, and that cannot be a goodf thing for a company with their clients, do you (Jelsoft) realise that there are Ba lot of competition and a recession on at the moment?

Internet Brands's SEC filings suggest that 60,000 licenses were expired, and only 40,000 up to date.

They've actually implemented a solution that hurts the majority of customers.

Even if vB had offered the $130 to everyone, they'd recoup it in 2 years...

v4 Forum upgrade $175 + v5 Forum upgrade at $175 = $350
v4 Suite upgrade $130 + v5 Suite upgrade at $250 = $380.
and after that, as Wayne said, Suite upgrades will cost more than forums...

As has been said elsewhere, vB have turned the screws and figured out a great way to extract more money from the product. Unfortunately, they messed up the implementation and pissed off customers, rather than giving them trojan horse that would benefit IB in the long term. Why IB are looking at the short term, rather than long term, amazes me.

If IB had just offered a blanket $130 upgrade to Suite for everyone, or even $130 for active and $150 for expired etc..., I think the situations on the forums would be completely different. It would have been a better PR result, and a better financial result for IB in the long term. Instead, vb Forum is the cheapest upgrade offer (for those that don't need helpdesk support), and that actually gets vB/IB less income in the long term.

[taffy056]

Completely different issue and off-topic for this thread.

I am sorry I disagree, this is a continuation of post 26 on this thread, to which you replied on post 41

[slinky]

Wayne,I think most of the grumbling would go away if people with inactive licence didn't have to pay almost 90% of the new price to upgrade their licences to the new version 4, I would bite the bullet and go with it to be honest, but I find that path is not open to me on one of my licences, I just think existing customers are being alienated by Jelsoft, and that cannot be a goodf thing for a company with their clients, do you (Jelsoft) realise that there are a lot of competition and a recession on at the moment?

Wayne is the messenger. I have no idea how influential he is in setting the pricing and what his stance was with regard to the present price. If you don't know, Internet Brands bought Jelsoft and the Jelsoft you knew is no longer in existence.

$20 is all that an owned vB3 license gets you? Pathetic.

The idea is obviously that you've invested a tremendous amount of time and effort in your forum. If you're an existing owner, the new Jelsoft realizes that they can extract a price out of you since you will "bite the bullet" and I don't think they care how you feel about it or your grumbling.

I have to think about what to do with several of my old licenses which were used to start recently new forums and the new Jelsoft has suddenly made completely worthless. In fact, it's more economical for me to throw away all my old licenses and recreate these young forums using another product or a GPL-based forum like phpbb. Considering what is going on now, I wonder whether we'll see a new "major version upgrade" every year. It would be even more profitable to have new major version upgrades every six months... these are difficult decisions. Either way, this highly unusual policy (and during a recession) will make for a good test case.

[slinky]

The most you'll pay to upgrade an inactive license to the Suite during this sale event is $210.00. This change has been applied to the shopping cart already. After the sale, everyone will pay $250.00, active or not

So essentially the most I'll have to pay is the almost the same as an existing customer. That's reassuring.

I'm wondering what effect this will have on people donating "mods" to the "community" for version 4. Don't want to rabble rouse. I'm just trying to be practical and figure out what the fallout of all of this is.

[ra87]

So essentially the most I'll have to pay is the almost the same as an existing customer. That's reassuring.

I'm wondering what effect this will have on people donating "mods" to the "community" for version 4. Don't want to rabble rouse. I'm just trying to be practical and figure out what the fallout of all of this is.

Unfortunatly, we wont know until v4 has been released for a few months. Already, some of the major modification producers on vb.org has stated they are not looking to upgrade their license, some of the developers that do both IPB and VB have said they will move to IPB full time.

BUT - thats what people are saying now, who know's what will happen. But if people stick to their words - it means the end of 70% of vBulletin's free modification comunity. Lol

[The Smoking Gun!]

Wayne,

I think most of the grumbling would go away if people with inactive license didn't have to pay almost 90% of the new price to upgrade their licenses to the new version 4, I would bite the bullet and go with it to be honest, but I find that path is not open to me on one of my licenses, I just think existing customers are being alienated by Jelsoft, and that cannot be a good thing for a company with their clients, do you (Jelsoft) realize that there are a lot of competition and a recession on at the moment?

Taffy you make a really good point, with that state of the economy, which is pretty much world wide, as far as developed nations go,(As many times it has been said, when the U.S. sneezes all the other countries get a cold) and many of those affected by this poor economic climate and unprecedented job loss, those spending very carefully have been some of the most recent new customers here for the first couple of times in a few months, myself i have two owned plus one blog, and because of things being how they are, this money was a great duress to be spent to not get what was promised, as very many vB fans have pointed out what use is it to use their current installation if it is not being supported though updates for bug and security issues? And why did we have to pay for the blog, which SHOULD have been removed for sale knowing it was being trashed, and although many other software companies do offer completely reworked upgrades, they are ALWAYS BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE but 4.0 makes upgrading cause you to lose a blog we just bought with in weeks and for some just a couple of months, that was supposed to supported for an entire year which means moving to 4.0 has to be backwards compatible with the previous versions of purchased modules in order to compare tis to other software companies, as well as someone who pointed out, what happens when PHP or SQL updates/upgrades occur and make our boards inoperable, since we cannot control how our hosting implements these constantly improving OS environments.

I disagree that this is at all off topic Taffy, it is in fact an astute observation that obviously is not being considered by those making the very poor decisions.

TSG!

[amjadz4]

Guys those with active licenses just upgrade to the Suite for $130. Its the best deal right now. If this pre sale gets over, the price will be way high and some of you might be forced to leave vB and switch to open source probably.

[taffy056]

Guys those with active licenses just upgrade to the Suite for $130. Its the best deal right now. If this pre sale gets over, the price will be way high and some of you might be forced to leave vB and switch to open source probably.

I got no issue with upgrading for my one licence as that is what i am looking for as I need a cms and its nice its all one package the only thing I don't like is that there is no sign of this coming out of alpha testing, and we must take a leap of faith by paying now, or it doubling in cost down the line,

I have an inactive licence and its going to cost me nigh on $200 when I only want 3.8.4 I can only get 3.7.1 now with it , imagine my shock when i came to renew a licence only to see the price has gone up by 300% !

[shohin]

I don't know but this is looking more and more like the beginning of a joint lawsuit!

[Gun Geek]

Not ashamed and I stand by my words. If you hadn't maintained your license as active, you wouldn't have access to the best Suite discount here. That is your best upgrade path, even if you don't want to use the CMS and Blog today. If you choose not to upgrade you can continue upgrading your Forums with the newest version until they expire and go inactive. The choice is yours.


It would have only been a waste if your didn't implement the forums and blogs when you purchased it.

What about those of us with recent owned licenses. Meaning we just shelled out $180 for vb3.x.x and our license is new and active. We are still getting the shaft unless we upgrade NOW for $130. Give the discount to us until our license expires, seems like the fair thing to do. We get what we paid for, the full year of upgrades, then can still get a discount on the upgrade to 4.0 suite with out getting robbed.

Guys those with active licenses just upgrade to the Suite for $130. Its the best deal right now. If this pre sale gets over, the price will be way high and some of you might be forced to leave vB and switch to open source probably.

I agree with you it is the best deal. But for a ghost product? We cant even see the functionality. This discount or upgrade scheme should have never been offered or required until there was an active demo of the script. We have no idea what this is going to do or how it will look besides some screen shots. Just not a good business practice IMO.

I got no issue with upgrading for my one licence as that is what i am looking for as I need a cms and its nice its all one package the only thing I don't like is that there is no sign of this coming out of alpha testing, and we must take a leap of faith by paying now, or it doubling in cost down the line,

I have an inactive licence and its going to cost me nigh on $200 when I only want 3.8.4 I can only get 3.7.1 now with it , imagine my shock when i came to renew a licence only to see the price has gone up by 300% !

EXACTLY, as said as of right now it is a ghost. Nobody knows for sure when the release will be. Yet we have to pay now to avoid paying double.

Tisk Tisk VB/jelsoft. Please reconsider this or acknowledge the fact that you will lose a large customer base. I am not saying that I will leave, heck I dont know. But if I have to upgrade now, being that I shelled out $180 recently to avoid paying double it is a possibility.

[rldoughjr]

Actually, it is creating a sense of usuary and abandonment. So maybe we cave, choke down our bad luck at active v. inactive, just paid to own, etc, and most will likely do so to some extent.

The point to JS/IB is this, they will lose short term in non-renewal of marginal and hobby sites. And will lose long-term by those who feel jilted using the time to 5.0 to explore other options.

Start looking for competing products to exploit this situation with inducements and iron-clad guarantees of availablity and upgrade paths.

[Powerboatie]

Moving away from VB Software (reluctantly)

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I had put aside $3,000 for the upgrade of 5 of my existing forums and the creation of 5 new forum websites.

As I have still not received a reply to enable me to clarify my current options, I have now bitten the bullet and for the first time ever, moved away from V Bulletin to a competitor forum software supplier for clubpowerboat.co.uk, one of my 5 new sites that I will be setting up in coming weeks.

It doesn't seem to be as versatile as VB, but at least I can buy it now and I can see what I am buying.

One down, 4 to go. Would anyone from VB like to contact me in person to explain in simple terms what my current new purchase and upggrade options are?

I don't mind paying money, but I do need to know what I am paying for.

I reckon a few thousand dollars worth of an order might be worth a phone call from VB sales?

Stuart

I am a huge fan of VB. I own 5 licences - some up to date and some last updated 1 to 2 years ago.

I want to ensure that all 5 sites are now upgraded to the latest VB software and I also want to buy 5 new licences for 5 new websites I hope to launch in coming weeks.

I have never ever seen anything so convoluted and confusing as this "launch".





I have read and reread every thing and I still don't know how to go about (or even if it is now possible to):

• Immediately upgrade the software on my 5 existing sites
• Purchase software for immediate use on my 5 new sites
• If I pay for upgrade or new licences what do I get and when do I get it and how long is it good for and how much more must I spend each year

I haven't even mentioned money wasted? on recent upgrades as I'm fortunate enough to have the financial luxury of not being too price sensitive. However I can understand the anger and upset of owners of small non commercial forums who must really feel deeply betrayed by VB.

As an experienced business owner,I can assure you that if I was CEO of VB, I'd have this issue sorted in one afternoon and the crisis converted into a win win for both past customers and VB4 sales!

Allowing yourselves to be beaten down and backtracked by customers by begrudgingly giving tiny bits of ground is a strategy doomed to failure.

My suggestion is to make a bold about turn that leaves your existing customers smiling and rushing to buy or pre buy VB 4.

Give some simple case studies to indicate how and why Johhny with a current VB licence and Mary with a 12 month expired VB licence should proceed with upgrades as if you were in their shoes. Take each case study through to VB5.

Stuart

[tickedon]

I reckon a few thousand dollars worth of an order might be worth a phone call from VB sales?
Stuart

vBulletin will generally only return phone calls to US and Canadian numbers... just a fyi They might make exceptions though.

[slinky]

One down, 4 to go. Would anyone from VB like to contact me in person to explain in simple terms what my current new purchase and upggrade options are?

I'm in the same predicament as you are in with multiple licenses. Remember that these are supposed to be "early renewal upgrades" so upgrades will somehow cost more later, which means there are no upgrade options later or these will be the upgrade options indefinitely. Not sure whether to wait. Many of us have invested in a content management system on several of my sites and have no idea whether the vBulletin publisher will be usable. Early reports tell me that there are parts which should concern me. It's a dilemma now which bullet to bite - an "upgrade" for software that doesn't exist or just migrate to something that might provide long term stability. Here's what I gather from having done much research in making decisions.

1) Licenses with active support: The only product with a possibility of upgrading. If you pay $130 for an "early upgrade" and you get "vBulletin suite" or it will cost you $175 for upgrading the forums only. The latter option is laughable since new forums will cost $195 per license so you might as well keep running your current vB 3.x software and buy a new license or migrate to another solution. It is uncertain what an "upgrade" to the publishing suite later will cost. Cost of upgrading 5 active support forums to publishing suite: $650. Cost of upgrading forums only: $855.

2) Licenses without active support: $190 to upgrade or buy it outright at only $45 more and run your current forum on 3.x and have a vbulletin 4 site separately. If you don't upgrade now, the price will be $285, not $250 as was stated in the upgrade email. If you have a "branding free" license you're really in trouble because you're sunk. Cost of upgrading 5 "nonactive" support forums to publishing suite: $975. Cost of upgrading 5 forums later: $875.

3) If you just upgraded your forums, you'll be paying $130 whether you have 1 day or 11 months left on your current support.

CONCLUSION: I have a big dilemma. For my active licenses it seems I have no choice but to pay the $130 fee if I want to "salvage" whatever remaining investment and decide soon about migration since vB4 is apparently a total rewrite. If there isn't a vB4/transition beta opportunity now, it may make sense to review all alternatives and sell/recoup money paid later. Regarding my inactive licenses, it's a huge dilemma. Let us know what you do.

[zappaDPJ]

Yes. It provides more though and gives you the tools to build a content publishing and networking site, not just a forum. I don't think we ever said that upgrading the Suite in the future would cost less than upgrading the Forum. Even then, it is still the better value because it gives you the tools to create a site where you can recoup that value, even if you're a hobbyist.

I'd promised myself not to get involved in these debates and move on but I can't let that go without making a comment.

With a few exceptions most of the vB sites I manage could be described as 'hobbyist'. They are sites that are paid for by contributions from their members. Without exception they all have up to date owned licences which means sometime within the last year they have paid to keep their sites updated and secure. They are all now being asked to pay again, within the same subscription period, an amount that is over three times that which they have already paid.

One of the principal questions I've been asked by these organisations is what do they get for such a massive increase in fees. The answer to that of course is nothing but a new set of terms and conditions and a pre-order for a product that from a consumer point of view doesn't exist. None of them can afford the huge hike in costs and the few that do have the funds immediately available will not pay out that amount of money on a product that isn't available.

So your assertion that hobbyists will recoup value is wrong because none of the ones under my management (26 licences) have the funds to do so. The real irony is if vBulletin had simply announced a doubling or even trebling of yearly support costs with some notice I would imagine most of the organisations I look after would have been able to increase their member subscriptions accordingly and wouldn't be moving away to a competitor product. I'd also go as far to say that if vB 4.0 was offered at the current special offer price at the end of their subscribed support period they would have all been able to plan and raise the required revenue.

I've been using vBulletin for nearly a decade. It's a great product and the support when it's been needed has been second to none. I have to say what I've seen in the last week has saddened me. I would never have thought a company which in the past has set such high standards could sink so low for such a short term gain.