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Would it have been too much to ask for???

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  • snoopy5
    replied
    Hi

    I think this is all very simple. It does not matter what we think what would have been appropriate. Behind vbulletin are decision makers who are adults. They all have a driving licence, so we can assume they know what they are doing. This is not at all an accident as some people try to interprete.

    It is a planned strategic switch. We are in a recession. But Vb increase the prices dramatically. You can bet that IB definitely has calculated beforehand, how many customers will leave because of this new business policy and how many might stay.

    IB is on the stockmarket. So they have to make forecasts how to increase sales. And obviously they think that they will make more money with this new policy than with the old one. Most of you alos own shares. And all of you love to see them increasing in value. Look at Gilette. They do not shave better, but prices have increased dramatically

    So we can waste our time in discussing this further. IB will ignore that. It does not matter to them. In 3 months time nobody will read this here anymore. The only thing that will have the attention of vb is, if there will be less purchses and less converters than expected over the next quarter. This is the only "talk" they will be interested in.

    So if you are serious about all the stuff you are talking about in this heat, then just move to another product. This is the great thing with internet. Invest one day and you know what kind of alternaives you have. From open source up to very good quality software (paid), which is even significant cheaper then vb.

    I actually wanted to purchase 5 new vb licences in October for new projects that have to go online now. As you can imagine, I decided in the last minute for another software. The difference in features and usability are not that big anymore as it was 2 years ago the case. Everyone has vb-converters which are working excellent. With some feature vb is by a small margin better, with some features others are miles ahead or already there where vb wants to arrive with vb/4vb5

    So stop whining. Either bite the bullet or leave. Everything else is a waste of time and energy.

    But the bullet is quite big, I can tell you. This is how I calculated it: No matter what kind of words you are using for it. At the end of the day, vb increased prices over the last 15 months for its forum software from 149$ to 180$ and now up to 195$. Even worse security-fix upgrades, which costed before October this year 40$, are now at 175$ at best.

    Please do no say now this is a new software etc. As other mentioned, most of the users have all they need with vb 3.8x. They only want to have security fixes for vb 3.8x. And forget the Ocober 30 offer. This was just to calm you down and attract you to new products and in 5 days it is over anyway.

    So I recommend that you all first think how this might go on in the future and whether you can live with this/ afford it. Compare all alternatives out there and then make a decision. That saves you time and you stay healthy

    Best wishes
    Last edited by snoopy5; Mon 26th Oct '09, 10:29am.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pope Viper
    replied
    Sorry for this.

    Click image for larger version

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  • The Smoking Gun!
    replied
    He is not asking for a personal favor, he is asking for what we all are asking, to get what we paid for and for what we paid for to be what it was represented to be, compounded by the fact that it was also Steve who urged everyone who inquired to not to wait to purchase prior to the announcement, but to buy now because it will be better, how was buying no longer supported products better?

    When instead of getting what we laid $240 out for we got no longer supported discontinued products you KNEW was the case when advising us not to wait and then, as stated above....being the same person responding to the tickets...and YES we understand he is just doing his job, but as a representative of the company, the company should be giving what we were advised by that representative, products that WILL be supported for the entire year, as well as being upgradeable which blog is not and if you take the 4.0 forums update you wasted blog money all together and still have to pay $130 more to get what should have been delivered in the initial license agreement, this is in no way fair practices!

    TSG!

    Leave a comment:


  • dutchbb
    replied
    @SloppyGoat: you may or may not be right about the pricing, I leave that in the middle. But asking for a personal favor is just ridiculous. You actually expect they are going to pick a few customers and give them a better deal while others get a worse deal? How unfair would that be? Just imagine what would happen if that would be the case and it gets leaked. Steve is right, and he just follows orders, so you do not have to be angry with him about what he answered to your ticket.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Smoking Gun!
    replied
    I agree whole heartedly, read this!

    My ticket responses were no better despite the strong argument!

    Attached Files
    Last edited by The Smoking Gun!; Mon 26th Oct '09, 7:09am. Reason: added thought!

    Leave a comment:


  • SloppyGoat
    replied
    Here's how my support ticket request went...a complete waste of time, by people who had already decided to rip all of their long time customers off on the free upgrade deal...



    Mike
    Oct 16th '09 09:42pm


    Would you consider resetting my license status, just so I don't feel quite so bitter and burned about this policy change you guys have made here? It's not like I have let it lapse for years or anything. It was just last May, and I have paid it quite a few times over the years.

    If I were allowed the chance to update my license status so I don't have to pay for the new forum version, I sure would be grateful. It's not that much to ask for, for 6+ years of loyalty and recommendations, is it? I like vBulletin, and have always been very enthusiastic about representing your software. I'm sure I have even sent a few customers your way over the years.

    It's just the fair thing to do, and it's good for business. Don't ruin the good business relationship I've always felt I had with vBulletin, please?

    My point is, I've always felt that I was treated fairly by Jelsoft and in return, I have recommended your software, for many years now, to everyone I have run into who was interested in a forum.

    It sure would settle my bad feelings about this if you could see past this short term profit, look toward continuing a healthy and fair feeling update policy. I mean, it was just last May! I think if you want to check, I have paid the support fee quite a few times over the years. Yep, was caught with my pants down this time, and if given the chance, I sure would've made sure the support fee was paid.

    I just don't feel that being blind-sided on a small technicality like this is fair, nor good business. Life just hasn't been good lately. I've been disabled with back trouble for quite some time now, and times have just been a tad rough.

    If you should decide to allow me this one time courtesy, I would even keep it discrete.

    Thank you for your consideration.

    Mike

    Steve Machol
    Oct 18th '09 12:49am Mike,

    I'm sorry but we have strict instructions not to make exceptions on a case-by-case basis.

    For licenses that expired in the last 12 months, we are offering an extra $45 discount for advance ordering, in addition to the publicly available pre-sale savings of $50. This means the all new vB 4.0 Publishing Suite will cost you only $190, a total savings of $95.

    This limited time offer expires on October 30, 2009. Beginning on October 31, the price will be $285.

    This offer is available to you when you log into your account from the main page here: http://www.vbulletin.com

    Best regards,
    Steve Machol
    Customer Support Manager, vBulletin

    vBulletin Home Page
    http://www.vbulletin.com/
    vBulletin Community Forums
    http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/


    Mike
    Oct 18th '09 08:58am

    Why did you even suggest I waste my time writing a support ticket, then? That's really ridiculous, Steve. (Especially if you knew you're the one who would be denying the request anyway.)

    Yeah, that's why I said we're being "screwed." That's stating it rather politely, for what they're doing to us, really. A lot of people are going to leave vBulletin, and those who don't are surely not going to trust you very much (if at all) anymore. That was just a really low blow and shows a complete lack of class and consideration on Jelsoft's behalf. What a two faced company.
    No worries. We're just the people who payed, supported, and were previously happy with vBulletin.
    Not that I would ever have anything to do with it (I keep everything 100% legal, myself.), but I would think that you will probably see a substantial increase in the piracy of your software.

    Oh well. Live it up! Have a "We just made a bunch of money by screwing a lot of previously loyal customers!" party! You deserve it!

    Good luck and best regards.

    Best regards! Yeah, right!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sadie Frost
    replied
    Exactly. And then you're in the same boat as the people who have owned expired licenses, except you may (or may not, depending on when vb 4.0 comes out and when your license expires) have 4.0 instead of 3.8.4.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sephiroth
    replied
    Originally posted by odln018 View Post
    In reviewing things, if I just want to stick with Forum only, it's free, correct?
    According to what I hear, you can upgrade to 4.0, but once that expires, you're stuck on that version of 4.0 until you buy a new license.

    Leave a comment:


  • SloppyGoat
    replied
    Originally posted by odln018 View Post
    In reviewing things, if I just want to stick with Forum only, it's free, correct?
    Only if your support fee was paid up before they made it impossible to pay it. I've paid the fee nearly every year, IIRC. It's only been lapsed since May.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pope Viper
    replied
    In reviewing things, if I just want to stick with Forum only, it's free, correct?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pope Viper
    replied
    I'm confused about one thing.

    If I want just the forum, and I have an active, owned license that expires in February, how much will I be paying for the 4.0 upgrade?

    Leave a comment:


  • SnitchSeeker
    replied
    I see it now, thanks

    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    No we're not. Please read the announcement here:
    http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320542

    That is your offer. It is the price active license customers are paying plus the renewal fee. And yes, that is the best offer you'll get if you have an inactive license.
    I see the announcement now. Thanks. That's much better than nothing, for sure.

    Cheers,
    Rich

    Leave a comment:


  • SnitchSeeker
    replied
    Thanks for the good news!

    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    Announcement coming soon and we'll push it to everyone's Admin CP.
    Thanks Wayne for the good news! I'm excited to see what you come up with!

    I really want to stick with vB but will not with the current discount system as I feel I am totally getting shafted since my license expired a few weeks ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • AVC
    replied
    Originally posted by christon26 View Post
    Which really is a shame...in my web design business I generally do more templating of phpBB and it was just starting to turn around to more vBulletin customisations....and now this...it all sux
    You may as well keep coding for phpBB and become active over there, many of us will, that is the future for forum owners and managers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grover
    replied
    Originally posted by christon26 View Post
    Which really is a shame...in my web design business I generally do more templating of phpBB and it was just starting to turn around to more vBulletin customisations....and now this...it all sux
    It is indeed a big shame. Shameless bussiness, at the costs of their customers. Sometimes you wonder how on earth it is possible that certain management is calling the shots at certain companies. Especially in this internet era where we are living in right now. Treating your customers in such an appalling way will boomerang back to you in no-time. Thanks to the fanastic internet with the fantastic forum platforms all things that are bad will surface to the light. This is the amazing power of today's internet. Thanks to forumsoftware making it possible to raise your voice openly.

    How ironic that IB offers exactly that: forumsoftware.

    Leave a comment:

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