I already have a lifetime lisence...but need to renew...

[Jose Amaral Rego]

If the code is completly rewritten, then why should not Internet Brands / Jelsoft be able to charge more or additional fee? Alot of small or big (do not know any off hand) companies do this. At least you now get the Blog and Projects incuded with one renewal fee and that was a bonus to get those small scripts (very good first release).


[Off Topic]
Still liking my idea on three version of CMS

Which would you get if Developer were to create such a product.
*light version = Free (Admin Only Use) -<Adverts From vBulletin>-
*Pro version = $50+ (Multiple Groups) -<Semi Advert Free>-
*Enterprise version = $75 (Multiple Groups / Per User) -<Advert Free>-
#Big Bussiness Stand alone with bridge = $600 to 1500+ (Multiple Groups / Per User) with controls to own adverts. -<Advert Free>-

*Denotes as = Addon
#Denotes as = Stand Alone

You are arguing on a Pre-Sales forum

[Reeve of Shinra]

If the code is completly rewritten, then why should not Internet Brands / Jelsoft be able to charge more or additional fee?

vb4 is not completely rewritten and the license you and I agreed too states that upgrades are free so long as we keep our members area access active. They can do whatever they want for new license sales as far as I'm concerned but I fully intend for them to honor their part of the deal.

[MRGTB]

If the code is completly rewritten, then why should not Internet Brands / Jelsoft be able to charge more or additional fee? Alot of small or big (do not know any off hand) companies do this. At least you now get the Blog and Projects incuded with one renewal fee and that was a bonus to get those small scripts (very good first release).


[Off Topic]
Still liking my idea on three version of CMS



You are arguing on a Pre-Sales forum

Same as above really, vB4 is not a total re-write. This has been posted here enough times already for you know that off by heart now. Also, you could argue that IPB3 is a totally re-write, yet their customers with activate licences had access to it at no extra cost. Lets not forget that one as a comparison.

[Reeve of Shinra]

Take that a step further, vb1 license holders upgraded to vb2 at no additional charge outside of their normal renewals. And vb2 holders upgraded to vb3 at no additional charge outside their normal renewals. Same for 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 and 3.8 if you wish to view step upgrades in the same light as IB wants to view vb4.

[fpouk]

Honestly, here's what my gut is telling me about the situation:

1. Those who've paid their $60 annual re-up with probably [note the speculation here] be given the opportunity to purchase vB4 for $120 (or $135...) rather than the $180 ($195) of those with no active subscription, effectively making the re-up cost a down payment of sorts.

according to this... your still paying the full price. All that you are doing is paying the 60 dollars up front. There is no discount

I for one will switch to IPB if there is a fee to upgrade after you already paid your upgrade fee for the year.

Thats simply bad business to charge someone twice for something.

[AshG]

according to this... your still paying the full price. All that you are doing is paying the 60 dollars up front. There is no discount

I for one will switch to IPB if there is a fee to upgrade after you already paid your upgrade fee for the year.

Thats simply bad business to charge someone twice for something.

Bad business, yes; but business nonetheless. IB knows what they are doing, and they are playing their hand well. We just don't like the position we're in of not knowing, and I have a feeling that they've done their homework about potential loss numbers.

This is really almost a non-event to the sites that have high amount of traffic and ad revenue to cover the increase; to small sites like mine that don't have a steady stream of income, this has the potential to be a gratuitous thumbing of the nose in our direction.

I'm in the process of looking at alternative options should the worst-case scenario end up happening.

[fpouk]

Bad business, yes; but business nonetheless. IB knows what they are doing, and they are playing their hand well. We just don't like the position we're in of not knowing, and I have a feeling that they've done their homework about potential loss numbers.

This is really almost a non-event to the sites that have high amount of traffic and ad revenue to cover the increase; to small sites like mine that don't have a steady stream of income, this has the potential to be a gratuitous thumbing of the nose in our direction.

I'm in the process of looking at alternative options should the worst-case scenario end up happening.

Since i have a owned license i think that i will just not renew and stick to the version that i am using. No way that i am paying over 60 bucks to upgrade to 4.0

[maplr4ever]

Wow. I'm not paying even $60. I pay $0.00 or I will switch to a competitor product. Many of them are having sales now, and free database migration sales, and I just checked out some of those yesterday....
If vB is the best forum, yet IB, the company that owns it, screws it all up, then I will never buy another vB license.

PS. on second thought, I have a owned license, and there are security patches for no pay, I might use that.....

[MrShides]

I just found out about this whole thing today, and I think both sides of this debate are pretty clear.

To sum things up, some of us (well all of us) want to know for sure what's going to happen. Jelsoft hasn't officially made that decision, or has otherwise decided not to answer the question. They are not going to tell us, no matter how much we complain.

The bottom line is this. If your currently running vbulletin, you should renew. Chances are there will still be updates for at least a year from now for 3.8.x. Continue to run 3.8.x if 4.x isn't included. When you've got a couple months left on your vb support license, decide if you want to leave.

Its very obvious that most of us have already decided. I've seen alot of if % this, then $60 that comments, but really this is how it is going to play out:

Realistically, we are moving to a new product that will most likely require a major amount of work on the admin side. If Jelsoft charges more for vbulletin 4 then I'm willing to pay, then I (or we) will move to a different product. We are going to have to "redo" everything anyways, so what does it really matter if we redo it in vb4 or phpBB or one of the many other things out there, paid and free.

For those of you that might not get this, let me break it down a little more simply.

Lets say vbulletin is your girlfriend. Now lets say you think your girlfriend is cheating on you, but you really have no proof. Well tonight your supposed to go out to dinner, and its going to cost roughly sixty bucks. Your probably going to get busy with her after dinner.

Maybe you find out a month later that she was infact cheating....

What i'm getting at is tonight, she's way cheaper then a prostitute, and alot more fun then handling the task yourself. Plus you might get a couple bootie calls between now and the time you break up.

Renew today.

[Nick]

I just found out about this whole thing today, and I think both sides of this debate are pretty clear.

To sum things up, some of us (well all of us) want to know for sure what's going to happen. Jelsoft hasn't officially made that decision, or has otherwise decided not to answer the question. They are not going to tell us, no matter how much we complain.

The bottom line is this. If your currently running vbulletin, you should renew. Chances are there will still be updates for at least a year from now for 3.8.x. Continue to run 3.8.x if 4.x isn't included. When you've got a couple months left on your vb support license, decide if you want to leave.

Its very obvious that most of us have already decided. I've seen alot of if % this, then $60 that comments, but really this is how it is going to play out:

Realistically, we are moving to a new product that will most likely require a major amount of work on the admin side. If Jelsoft charges more for vbulletin 4 then I'm willing to pay, then I (or we) will move to a different product. We are going to have to "redo" everything anyways, so what does it really matter if we redo it in vb4 or phpBB or one of the many other things out there, paid and free.

For those of you that might not get this, let me break it down a little more simply.

Lets say vbulletin is your girlfriend. Now lets say you think your girlfriend is cheating on you, but you really have no proof. Well tonight your supposed to go out to dinner, and its going to cost roughly sixty bucks. Your probably going to get busy with her after dinner.

Maybe you find out a month later that she was infact cheating....

What i'm getting at is tonight, she's way cheaper then a prostitute, and alot more fun then handling the task yourself. Plus you might get a couple bootie calls between now and the time you break up.

Renew today.

It's nice to know that there are more people out there who actually "get it".

[Numbus]

Well I went through this whole thread and read all the replies. And I fully agree with everyone about this silence treatment IB/Jellsoft has been giving the customers.

I for one, been a customer of Jelsoft since early 2001. And I never had to pay any additional fees other then the annual renewal fee's of the license agreement. I went through many VBulletin full version and subversions (2.x and 3.x series) and never got charged more money.

Now my license expired 2 months ago and I actually was planning to renew it today. However after reading all this and the announcement about VB4. I am kinda pissed off. I mean I really want to get the latest upgrades for my forum and I have no problems supporting Jelsoft as I have been doing for 8 years now. But I think it's kinda ridicilous that Jelsoft went from a community/business community (as they always charged for their services) to a complete Business setup.

On top of that, a bad business setup as well. Maybe smart in their sense as if they arent giving people their free ugprade to 4.0 they scammed people out of that extra 60 dollars (or worse yet, the full payment option for the current standalone 3.8 license) and then charge them additionally if they want to go with the latest product. There should be announcements so people know or its worth upgrading their license for another year, or just throw in the towel. Get a SQL Port script and just take the whole Vbulletin forum to another system.

[Unreal Player]

As we have stated many times and as Ray has also posted, this has not been determined yet. We can't answer something for which there is no answer. When this is decided there will be a clear announcement posted about this, Until then there is nothing we can add.

Sorry, but you can tell us if you are going to stick to your terms and conditions or not. Thank you .

[Blackbook]

It's nice to know that there are more people out there who actually "get it".

Actually, I think his 'girl friend' analogy has kinda lost the plot completly.

Let me say this;

I would rather set up everything from scratch a million times over, than give money to a company who don't deserve it.

[AshG]

It's nice to know that there are more people out there who actually "get it".

I think by "get it" you mean "think like me."

My board remains operational whether or not I pay the $60 for update privileges; I am losing out on absolutely nothing right now by not maintaining an active update subscription. However, if I pay my $60 on the premise that vB will fulfill their promise of all updates and upgrades for a year and get screwed, then I'm out $60.

There's faith, and there's gambling. I had faith in Jelsoft, I am not willing to gamble on Internet Brands. If I pay my $60 and they pull the trigger on a deviated pricing scheme, I'm out $60 from where I could have been with nothing to show for it but a slightly higher revision number at the bottom of my forums. With grad school costs, a new child to feed, and a small board that makes no revenue for me, it makes no sense to roll the dice and pray I luck out.

[Neyland]

As pointed out, making people under current support contracts pay for the upgrade will harm the hobby board owner with no ad generation more than the commercial site. However, we both pay the same yearly subscription rate. This isn't a per CPU/Device/Connection license. Of the boards out there, how many are non revenue generating?

And as someone else also pointed out... You don't have to give out pricing information, but a lot of things could be cleared up by simply clarifying the upgrade policy for those currently under support contracts.

The inability to clarify that one question says how heavily they are considering it. I have a feeling they have already decided we're going to pay, the question is just how much.

People like to throw I'm gonna sue around... but they know nobody typically does. That's not saying the bandwagon might get full should someone perform a class action, but at the end of the day the impact will be felt in subscriptions.

Personally I'm up in Oct. and have maintained my support since I purchased the software in '04. But as of right now, I'm doing a lot of leg work on porting possibilities. I don't care what kind of legalize you wrap it up in, the people here expect to get the upgrade for free if they have a current active owned license. Otherwise, there wouldn't be all this issue and internal considerations going on.

Make me pay for an upgrade while under support contract and I'll easily drop $200 for another product if for no other reason than to not do business with a company that has failed to meet my expectations.

Economically that may not sound like the best choice, but I simply will not reward bad behavior.