I already have a lifetime lisence...but need to renew...

[Nick]

The main concern right now Nick, is one that people have always been of the understanding that if you purchase an "Owned License", it entitles you to any future vBulletin version updates at no extra cost for the 12 months your license is active. What's bothering people, is that vB4 might come out and IB will ask people with active Owned Licenses to pay another small fee to get it. Personally, I don't understand why IB can't clear this whole issue up (once and for all).

They've said nothing concrete so far, apart from dropping a few hints telling people to renew their policy, which doesn't tell us anything apart from the fact, IB still want you to hand over your money. What people need is some hard facts laid out regarding what the situation will be if you have an active Owned Licence when vB4 is released. Will they have to pay another small fee on top of this, or not?

People will only wait so long before they start to lose patience and head off elsewhere Nick, it's already happening. This question needs to be answered ASAP, and it doesn't involve listing any price structure changes as such, just if "Owned License" owners will have to pay an addition fee to get vB4.

For the record, I am completely aware of what is going on, what the issues are, what customers are concerned about, and what everybody is dying to hear.

Again, asking and asking obviously is getting everybody absolutely nowhere. People have been begging for an answer for weeks. Why waste time and energy continuing to do so if you know it won't speed up the process? It just doesn't make sense.

I'm sure IB knows exactly what kind of volume it may be losing by waiting so long to provide an announcement, and they aren't clueless as to what members are anxious to find out. They aren't stupid, although they may appear to be.

In summary, I am fully-aware of the situation here (so I don't need to be clued in ) but I just find it useless to continue to beg and startle people (by getting them worried) when you know for a fact that doing so is going to accomplish absolutely nothing. IB is going to announce everything when IB wants. No level of customer-demand will make them move any bit faster. How do I know? Well you tell me how long people have been asking for an answer, and how many improvements you have seen in that time.

[Blackbook]

Again, asking and asking obviously is getting everybody absolutely nowhere. People have been begging for an answer for weeks. Why waste time and energy continuing to do so if you know it won't speed up the process? It just doesn't make sense.

Not that I wanted to bring this up directly but;

'the most vocal complainers tend to keep reposting the same complaints over and over again and, if truth be told, these people do not represent the vast majority of our customers....their comments can also give the false impression that there are a lot more complainers than there really are.'

How dare they!

I'm just doing my bit to add my name (and many others) to the 'complainer' count. They obviously arn't taking anything seriously.

[MRGTB]

For the record, I am completely aware of what is going on, what the issues are, what customers are concerned about, and what everybody is dying to hear.

Again, asking and asking obviously is getting everybody absolutely nowhere. People have been begging for an answer for weeks. Why waste time and energy continuing to do so if you know it won't speed up the process? It just doesn't make sense.

I'm sure IB knows exactly what kind of volume it may be losing by waiting so long to provide an announcement, and they aren't clueless as to what members are anxious to find out. They aren't stupid, although they may appear to be.

In summary, I am fully-aware of the situation here (so I don't need to be clued in ) but I just find it useless to continue to beg and startle people (by getting them worried) when you know for a fact that doing so is going to accomplish absolutely nothing. IB is going to announce everything when IB wants. No level of customer-demand will make them move any bit faster. How do I know? Well you tell me how long people have been asking for an answer, and how many improvements you have seen in that time.

But Nick, you keep replying again, and again, and again in this thread to people. Yes, your right Nick, maybe it is a waste of time asking the question seeing as it's not getting an answer back from IB. But like you pointed out above: "that's your own opinion", and not everybody elses.

You've made it obvious you feel people are wasting their time asking, and should go ahead and renew their licenses regardless. But that's there choice to make, not yours.

I posted this in another thread and I'll post it again here. Keep your licenses active and current. Don't wait until 4.0 to renew/purchase.


http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1747686#post1747686

I doubt it. My impression is that they will be making the transition on policies as soon as the licensing changes are announced. i.e., "Hi guys, the new changes are bla bla bla, effective immediately".

But this situation is different; they are going to be offering discounts to those who maintain active licenses when the changes are made. If they announce the discounts before they put it into effect, then everybody and their brother has time to purchase a license in order to qualify for the discount.
It wouldn't be much of a special discount if that happens.

I don't understand.

Either you have an active license and pay little-to-nothing to upgrade to vB 4, or you have either no license or an inactive license and pay the full upgrade fee for vB 4, whatever that may be.

Have active license -> Pay X% of new vB 4 upgrade fee
Have inactive license -> Pay 100% of new vB 4 upgrade fee
Have no license -> Pay 100% of new vB 4 upgrade fee

That's the gist I get.

No, it won't be the X%. If you don't have an active license, then you would be subject to the full fee (100%) - no discount.

It can be changed at any time, as per the license agreement:



www.vBulletin.com/go/license

As you assume, they don't have a definite answer. They also don't have "insider's suggestions". Nothing has changed, despite the rumors and speculation. They are going to recommend no different than they would, say, 6 months, 1 year, or 2 years ago.

He's probably referring to the pricing changes under consideration right now; not the past changes.

They have already answered this. Ray said to keep all licenses current, as active license holders will receive a discount.

All you wanted was a "yes" or a "no", with no statistical information - and that's what they provided. The answer is, "Yes, it is worth upgrading now."

Is that not exactly what you asked for?

I'm not convinced by any of it. I'm quite disappointed, just like everybody else.

But I, unlike many others, have realized that no matter how much complaining, negative feedback, or even simple requests we make/ask, we aren't going to get anywhere. It has been made clear that information will be dispensed at IB's leisure - not the customers' request.
So there is no reason to ask, ask, ask, demand, demand, demand, all while whining. Just sit back and wait. There's nothing to talk about until they make an announcement.

That's my thinking behind all of this.

I didn't say it's what we want to do, or what we should be doing. It's what we are being forced to do. There is no alternative for customers who want to stick with vB.

Waiting is the only productive thing going on right now.

For the record, I am completely aware of what is going on, what the issues are, what customers are concerned about, and what everybody is dying to hear.

Again, asking and asking obviously is getting everybody absolutely nowhere. People have been begging for an answer for weeks. Why waste time and energy continuing to do so if you know it won't speed up the process? It just doesn't make sense.

I'm sure IB knows exactly what kind of volume it may be losing by waiting so long to provide an announcement, and they aren't clueless as to what members are anxious to find out. They aren't stupid, although they may appear to be.

In summary, I am fully-aware of the situation here (so I don't need to be clued in ) but I just find it useless to continue to beg and startle people (by getting them worried) when you know for a fact that doing so is going to accomplish absolutely nothing. IB is going to announce everything when IB wants. No level of customer-demand will make them move any bit faster. How do I know? Well you tell me how long people have been asking for an answer, and how many improvements you have seen in that time.

[Nick]

But Nick, you keep replying again, and again, and again in this thread to people. Yes, your right Nick, maybe it is a waste of time asking the question seeing as it's not getting an answer back from IB. But like you pointed out above: "that's your own opinion", and not everybody elses.

You've made it obvious you feel people are wasting their time asking, and should go ahead and renew their licenses regardless. But that's there choice to make, not yours.

People are mainly asking if they should renew or not. I am answering based on facts that have been posted so far by Ray and any other employees - but mostly Ray.
Essentially, this is what happens: People ask "should I renew" and I respond, "yes, according to Ray, active license-holders will receive discounts for the vB 4 upgrade."

I have no reason to convince people to renew. What good does it do me? I'm not an employee, and if I was, I wouldn't be making commission. If you think I'm spending my time trying to convince people for the sake of convincing, then you are sadly mistaken.

People seem confused and look right through Ray's suggestion and are skeptical to follow through. Why? I have no idea. They want official announcements and recommendations and he gave just that.

You've made it obvious you feel people are wasting their time asking, and should go ahead and renew their licenses regardless.

It's not a waste of time to ask. It's a waste of time to ask multiple times, and beg for a response, and demand an answer when you know you aren't going to get it.

But that's there choice to make, not yours.

You're right. But people obviously want opinions if they're posting on the forum, don't they? Isn't that what a forum is for - collaborative discussion? ...Or am I mistaken?

[MRGTB]

What exactly does Ray's sugestion say other than: "We should renew licences"?

Hit me with some valuable information that I missed Oh wait, we might get a discount!

But then isn't that the whole point of the main issue here, that active "Owned License" owners should get vB4 anyway without having to pay any discount.

Do you expect me to renew my license based of that?

Not in your wildest wet dream

[Reeve of Shinra]

People are mainly asking if they should renew or not. I am answering based on facts that have been posted so far by Ray and any other employees - but mostly Ray.
Essentially, this is what happens: People ask "should I renew" and I respond, "yes, according to Ray, active license-holders will receive discounts for the vB 4 upgrade."

Why should customers reward IB for bad behavior?
If it were my company, i'd tell people to keep buying the product too.

[Nick]

What exactly does Ray's sugestion say other than: "We should renew licences"?

Nothing, really. But this thread isn't asking anything more than, "Should I renew or not." So Ray's response from another thread is perfectly fitting.

But then isn't that the whole point of the main issue here, that active "Owned License" owners should get vB4 anyway without having to pay any discount.

This thread has nothing to do with the debate or customer complaints. This thread is a simple question from a customer.

The whole point of the main issue belongs in one of the many proper threads in the Licensed Customer Feedback forum - not the Pre-Sales questions forum.

Why should customers reward IB for bad behavior?

Reward IB? Are you kidding? This isn't a game or about rewards; it's business. If you want the product, you are going to pay what the company charges; and if you don't like it, tough sh**. Skip along on your merry way and find the next alternative.

The price of gas rises and everybody is forced to pay, even though the gas companies are making record profits per-quarter. If we don't want to pay, we ride our bikes.

If it were my company, i'd tell people to keep buying the product too.

He's not telling people to keep buying it. People asked if they should renew their licenses or just let them expire. Ray responded by informing customers of the best plan of action, and hinted to the plans: If you are an active license-holder, you will be rewarded with a discount towards the vB 4 upgrade. It's as simple as that, really.

[Blackbook]

The price of gas rises and everybody is forced to pay, even though the gas companies are making record profits per-quarter. If we don't want to pay, we ride our bikes.
.

But I'd be pissed if I brought a car and it said 'free fuel for a year', then failed to indeed give me free fuel for a year.

[Reeve of Shinra]

Reward IB? Are you kidding? This isn't a game or about rewards; it's business. If you want the product, you are going to pay what the company charges; and if you don't like it, tough sh**. Skip along on your merry way and find the next alternative.

No need to be hostile, I am having a friendly conversation with you but in answer to your question.

a) I already paid for the product -- multiple times in fact as I own multiple licenses with various addons.

b) Per my license agreement, I am entitled to any upgrades (including vb4) while my members area access is active.

Per the leaked documentation, it appears that IB is willing to break our licensing agreement and charge me an additional fee for the upgrade. So who in their right mind would want to do business with a company that breaks their agreements?

I may very well skip along to the next alternative as you call it but I've been a long time supporter of the vbulletin forum software (8 years and counting) and I would like to hear the official announcement over what changes will take place with VB4 and how the licenses for existing customers will be handled.

The price of gas rises and everybody is forced to pay, even though the gas companies are making record profits per-quarter. If we don't want to pay, we ride our bikes.

That has nothing to do with my point. If IB wants to raise the renewal rates - go for it, but I have an issue with them breaking the licensing agreement we mutually agreed to.

He's not telling people to keep buying it. People asked if they should renew their licenses or just let them expire. Ray responded by informing customers of the best plan of action, and hinted to the plans: If you are an active license-holder, you will be rewarded with a discount towards the vB 4 upgrade. It's as simple as that, really.

No its not -- why should any of us feebly lay around and allow a company to break their contract?

[Nick]

Again, this thread isn't about the morality of their changes, or even mere debate about their changes. This thread is a single pre-sale question.

I am not a fan of what is to come. I feel the same way about it as you guys do. But I'm not going to continue to argue about it. Why argue with the ones you agree with? Seriously - there is nothing we can do to stop the changes, or make them come any faster. They will be announced when ready. I think the customers' voices have been made clear enough by now.

[Sysop9001]

I guess so, but Nick, c'mon now, you cant tell me that you're convinced at all by all of this?

I dont think its good financial management to invest in something that doesn't even know its own future. Especially when they arn't even prepared to make public their intended plans....thats not good money sense. They dont even seem too enthuastic about vb4...Its just nowhere near as exciting as vb2 to vb3 was. I shouldn't feel that spending money on a product is a waste of money - and the 'yes' you keep providing over and over simply isn't convincing to me, or tens/hundreds of other customers (many who have read this and wont post).

I Agree.

All this confuses people, even if there is no reliable information, post left by the official vB managers, and this is not good, personally now I'm thinking of buying licensing of other rivals (although I have vBulletin and vbseo license!)

[Sysop9001]

+1. I am also waiting for new price structure but it seems they are taking too long time. If my patience runs out I will go with IPB and many will do same.

Yupp

[Sysop9001]

Again, this thread isn't about the morality of their changes, or even mere debate about their changes. This thread is a single pre-sale question.

I am not a fan of what is to come. I feel the same way about it as you guys do. But I'm not going to continue to argue about it. Why argue with the ones you agree with? Seriously - there is nothing we can do to stop the changes, or make them come any faster. They will be announced when ready. I think the customers' voices have been made clear enough by now.

Listen that not only you exist, there are many others who would like to open a community for example and maybe need to do it once, but can not make a decision on which software to base their board because of these misunderstandings, it is therefore only a loss of customers and money for this company, just to conclude that your point of view (once and for all).

Then it's normal that we have and that we want to know some other need that we must not explain, but we have also the right to know, because we have paid and have helped grow this company (Jelsoft first and now IB) over the years.

It seems that you waste your time to reply and reply and reply

[Nick]

Listen that not only you exist, there are many others who would like to open a community for example and maybe need to do it once, but can not make a decision on which software to base their board because of these misunderstandings, it is therefore only a loss of customers and money for this company, just to conclude that your point of view (once and for all).

Then it's normal that we have and that we want to know some other need that we must not explain, but we have also the right to know, because we have paid and have helped grow this company (Jelsoft first and now IB) over the years.

It seems that you waste your time to reply and reply and reply

If it weren't for the leak, you wouldn't know a damn thing and would have nothing to worry about. Which is my point.

We have all voiced our concerns with the leaked proposals, and that's all we can do for now. I have chosen not to take part in the mess and I am acting like no leak ever happened. I only know what has been announced or stated by official employees, and therefore have nothing to worry about.
Unfortunately, everybody is getting their knickers in a knot over this whole fiasco, when it's really a bunch of nothing.

You will know what the changes are when they are announced. Until then, stop complaining.

And no, I'm not wasting my time. I think that's my call to make, not yours.

[Reeve of Shinra]

Nick,

The real answer to this is simple. IB/Jelsoft needs to step up and commit to what they will and wont do. Until then, they are going ot have a lot of upset customers to deal with.

- John