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[ another announcement...another complete let down as far as this topic is concerned ]
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It's an omen... -
I know - unbelievable.
I've never known a company treat customers like this before.
Making announcements that will completely change the licensing of a product and then for months refusing to fill the details. Leaving their customers unsure about whether contracts (often held for years) are going to be honoured or broken.
One of the most annoying aspects is that we've helped the software development by reporting bugs and suggesting features.
Aside from the fact it is our financial support over the years that pays the wages of the people now treating us with complete disrespect.
Current customers must have long standing contracts honoured.
What they do with new customers is up to IB.
If they can disable parts of the suite that haven't been paid for then fine.
The upload will be bigger but I can live with that. That will sort the blog license issue out.
What I can't live with is having a new contract forced on me when I bought the owned license and blog with the understanding that it was a lifetime one off payment.
It is this understanding which we all had when we paid our hard earned cash that is ethically (possibly legally) wrong to change.
Those that say stay with 3.8.3 and don't upgrade if you don't want to accept new terms are wrong. I've paid my cash and I'm entitled to download the most recent version!
I guess we'll eventually find out how much, we the customer matter to IB.
In the meantime the wait is insulting to say the least.Comment
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I'm not really sure about this, so don't read that much into what I'm saying. But I think it applies in certain situations when a new company takes over, and may do so in Internet Brands case. IB may be in a position that they only have to honour licenses bought (before they took over) for 12 months, before they can legally change things as new owners of Jelsoft/vBulletin.
Basically, they inherited the license agreements (that they didn't create), and I'm not sure if after a certain time scale they are well within their rights to legally change those agreement policies. But may have to honour them for a certain time scale.Last edited by MRGTB; Thu 30 Jul '09, 8:49am.Comment
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No need to be defensive Nick, it makes you look to be flip flopping, stand by your knowledge, (if you know something you base your words upon) or belief that it is a better way to go, because your experience with this company substantiates the logic behind your statements, and state why this is so, however my choice of words were just my looking for a descriptive term for what seemed to be the general message in those posts encouraging those to just renew, it will be better for them, even though something you may know is, at this time, confidential, and you are unable to elaborate said reasons.
I did search for a better descriptive for the theme of your posts however they were too far down the list (previous pages) and were not there for me to see in those listings of previous posts in the thread below the text area box in the reply window, I am not sure if it would have allowed me to go back any pages and retain what had been already been written, to properly quote you in your responses to those queries, after all, these days, especially for those with the intelligence level usually displayed by those this deeply involved in the web, and capable of utilizing the many aspects and add-ons available, could never be expected to follow such suggestions blindly with out some degree of logic that displayed why it would make sense to do so.
I was only hoping to calm down the drama that seems to have been building in this thread with some common sense references, since your posts in favor of renewing seemed to be fanning the flames of drama, for the lack of rationale behind your suggestions to them to just go ahead and renew them.
I am rather surprised such a group of people, assumingly Forum Admins, would become so caught up in this to be posting drama, with out anyone thinking outside the small box and realizing the simplicity of this, so we all need to look at things in their simplest form, and the aspects that the final result about this release is posted, and state just that, yes...no... not a good result for you, is a good result for you, and let IB know what thier customer base has on their minds, in the hopes to encourage THEM to do this in a way that is right and fair for all.
Once there is a release post, and you disagree with it's outcome, THEN go ahead and express all you feel about it, nothing is ever written in stone and therefore can be changed to suit those who can have an impact on this company's future if they are so disatisified with their final decision.
TSG!
Wrote this in the morning but didn't hit send, so it may be a little out of context with some newer posts!Comment
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Well as I stated earlier in this thread, the norm for such a situation is that changes to the terms apply to new purchases, and prior life time owners, within their one year term for free upgrades, should be gandfathered in, and they (IB) must honor said terms as they were at the time of purchase, or renewal, and if they WERE to apply changes to those who have purchased any new owned license within the year prior to the release date, they would then be setting themselves up for a class action suit, and since most of the constituents meet here on many levels, it would require very little to get a very loud voice going in concert, signing on to such a breach of contract with so many, so easily contacted for this purpose, as well as any good attorney would see this as an easy win, and likely take it on a contingency basis, with none of our money needing to be put out up front for a retainer, with that in mind, do not think for a minute, that IB's legal department would also be advising the decision makers of this liability possibility, and urging them also to do this fairly to existing licensees, and only apply any new pricing structure or other terms, to just new license purchases, and since this is a logical path to follow, having a big scurry of people getting new licenses and renewals under the existing terms, might be a big enough economic boost to help balance out the two years expense of bringing this new product to fruition, however we may also get totally screwed if they turn around and decide to do just that, make it an entirely new product and therefore NOT considered an update, but instead an whole new package altogether, for which those terms we accepted would still be valid but not apply to the new product, this would require them to call it something different altogether as well, it could not be called vBulletin forums or content management systems, it would HAVE to be an entirely different animal to get around that loophole.
Any attorneys out there willing to comment on the viability of what has been said through out this thread???
No one would consider it legal advice, only confirmation of what the by laws state, with no consideration for THIS particular incident, but just a general applicable set of criteria that needs to be met by any company whose terms have been changed for any reason, and what the out come has traditionally been for those who previously have been in a similar situation.
This would greatly be appreciated and maybe calm things down until something concrete comes through the announcement board!
TSG!Comment
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Are you kidding? Lack of rationale? My suggestion? I am merely relaying Ray's recommendation to keep licenses active and renewed. I didn't come up with that. Ray did.
Why am I continuing to post it? Because customers who (understandably) have no idea what is going on come here asking questions and trying to gather information. Unfortunately for them, most members jump into the thread and throw as much negative context into the post as they can. I, on the other hand, try to outline the information that isn't mentioned by these nay-sayers... and that is just what I am doing by passing on Ray's suggestion.
It's nothing more than that. And you are accusing me of trying to keep the drama going? Jeesh, people are so quick to attack each other and IB as a whole around here now. This place is no less than unbearable.Regards,
NickComment
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No No No Nick, you are getting what I said all wrong....PEOPLE made your suggestions become flame fanning NOT YOU! and THIS was what I was looking to calm down!
I think you are trying to offer as much positive response you can based on whatever you know, but OFFER no rationale behind it, meaning as far as everyone is taking it, it is unsubstantiated, and you are being seen as one has said, "punting" to get renewals in, which I do not see your posts as doing so in the manner they are being taken, similarly as you have taken my post here.
And NO I am NOT accusing you of keeping the drama going, that was just another point I was making about where this thread has been going, since the posters primarily consist of Admins of forums, I would have expected more people to behave as they would expect those who belong to their communities to, here, and am not isolating YOU as being a part of it at all, I am sorry if my phraseology sounded otherwise!
And I have attacked no one, including you or IB in fact if you read my posts carefully enough you would see I often have offered both sides of the coin in almost every aspect of what I have commented on.
Maybe I will do better to just be a lurker until this comes to a head and I see how it plays out, being so new to this community and whole world more or less, i only thought I was opening eyes to additional possibilities that could possibly show some directions the issue could take as opposed to the repeatedly mentioned narrow scoped options that many expressed their concerns about.
Sorry if I ruffled any other feathers out there as well!
I have a rule of thumb for posting that might help.(not specifically aimed at you Nick)..when ever you see a post by someone that causes your passion to suddenly flare by what you have just read....wait an hour and read it over a few times until that passion reduces a few notches, because aften times our initial interpretation can be biased by other things we may be feeling that have nothing to do with the thread in front of you, and remember that written words have little "tone of voice" or inflection in them and therefore makes HOW something is meant, subject to whatever someone chooses to read in to it, so step back a little and become unattached from being so close to it, and look at it again objectively, before jumping to any conclusion and presuming to know how something was meant, with out first calmly asking the author what the intention of the post actually was, if it still comes out as you took it initially, THEN write back with all your passion!
Again, my apologies!
TSG!Comment
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Again you're failing to see the point;
Ray said nothing more than 'renew' - Nothing more. Sure, he'd like us to renew. It means more money for him, almost certain more guaranteed income when they decide to charge us again for VB4/5/6 whatever. But, If Ray said 'Nick, I would throw myself off a cliff' would you do it? Hell no.
You'd want to know WHY you were throwing yourself off a cliff. You'd want answers, you'd want clarifaction, information, trust and faith in that person and the company he's representing.
All I've seen over the last few months is a lot of top, well respected Dev's leaving (jumping ship possibly...what do they know that we dont?!) and a whole LACK of information.
OBVIOUSLY Ray's going to say ''renew'', but he should also back that up with some information that is half relevant. He's not exactly going to say ''please don't give us money''.
Surely you don't have blind faith with this shambles of a company Nick? You must have half a braincell still ticking there?It's an omen...Comment
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You get asked to renew by the GM, which is the best thing that you can do because you have stated that you have got an owned license.
Now I will take a strong guess that you haven't actually renewed just yet and you are having more issues.
Oh and Nick, I know I have got you on my ignore list but look if you have got issues then maybe instead of getting stuck into people on here you should ask the guys via a support ticket to get the answers that you want.Aussiefootyforums
New Site New forum
Come and talk sports all day long
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vB4 will be sold as forums-only and suite, so that's covered. As far as the costs, I agree, but we'll find out.
Leaked information != "making announcements".
The information that was leaked was clearly not ready to be announced or finalized at all. That said, they should have handled it better and made it a high priority to iron out the details and let everyone know what is going on.
I think it is being overblown, simply because they must know that if they screw their customers, they will screw themselves even more in the end. If not, feel free to exercise your right to speak with your wallet, not renew, and stick with vB3 or convert to a competitor's product.
Messy situation all around.Comment
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I don't care for brickering all I would like is some clarification on the financial side from a vB staff memberComment
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Contacted vB via email.. It's just waiting time then. Feel a little more relaxed now.We don't have any pricing information for vB4 yet. When we have something official then we will post in the announcements forum.
All the best,Comment
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