I already have a lifetime lisence...but need to renew...

[Blackbook]

My understanding is that if vB4 is released before my first year is over, it does not cost me to get this upgrade, is this not correct? It clearly states one year of free updates, an increase in version release is by all definition an update!

Please clarify this for all concerned, I am not very happy when games are played or symantics used to create loopholes in misrepresented agreements! To borrow from a famous quote....please don't make me angry Mr. McGee, you won't like me when i am angry!!!

TSG!

If you read certain 'leaked' PM images, then yes. They're going to make you pay again. What they havn't said is how much you'll pay and whether you get a discount equivalent to $60 or more.... Its crap I know...

[Nick]

If you read certain 'leaked' PM images, then yes. They're going to make you pay again. What they havn't said is how much you'll pay and whether you get a discount equivalent to $60 or more.... Its crap I know...

Just keep in mind that those leaked discussions were just thoughts and plans. All plans start somewhere, but it doesn't mean that it is the set-in-stone policy. Things could have vastly changed since those original concepts... especially since they have got a hint of what's coming their way if they don't change their plans.

[FreshFroot_]

Just keep in mind that those leaked discussions were just thoughts and plans. All plans start somewhere, but it doesn't mean that it is the set-in-stone policy. Things could have vastly changed since those original concepts... especially since they have got a hint of what's coming their way if they don't change their plans.

True... but we will see. For the time being, I think no one should renew. Wait till Ray posts an announcement and then decide what you want to do.

[Nick]

For the time being, I think no one should renew.

Even though Ray (who obviously knows more about the upcoming policies than we do) has recommended the exact opposite of this, right?

[FreshFroot_]

Even though Ray (who obviously knows more about the upcoming policies than we do) has recommended the exact opposite of this, right?

As I stated below. If he appreciates his customers, he won't care if anyone has renewed up until vB4 is going to be released. And, he will ALLOW current members maybe a week to renew their licenses to get a free upgrade.

If he didn't give current members a chance, to me personally it's a slap in the face. I have lots of licenses, so it WILL matter if I decide to move away.

[The Smoking Gun!]

IB stands for Internet Brands which is the company that owns Jelsoft (vBulletin Developers)

thank you for clarifying that, sorry for misinterpreting that for the other company product LOL!


TSG!

[MRGTB]

Even though Ray (who obviously knows more about the upcoming policies than we do) has recommended the exact opposite of this, right?

Nick, why should people follow that advice. When he has supplied no real information as to why customers should?

If I ask you to put your hand in the fire, without a reason why you should. Would you do it?

[Blackbook]

Nick, why should people follow that advice. When he has supplied no real information as to why customers should?

If I ask you to put your hand in the fire, without a reason why you should. Would you do it?

Its worse than that MRGTB, not only is it putting your hand in the fire, but somehow giving them something out of it also.

[Nick]

Nick, why should people follow that advice. When he has supplied no real information as to why customers should?

If I ask you to put your hand in the fire, without a reason why you should. Would you do it?

There is a reason: You get a discounted upgrade price to vB 4. Where in the world did you get the idea that there is no reason to keep your licenses updated?

[MRGTB]

But the whole discount thing is "up-in-the air" right now. IB have posted nothing about prices. People are expecting IB to honour licences anyway (passed over in the suite). So why should it matter if you renew now or not?

Don't be so naive Nick, quite a few times now you been punting here for people to renew their licences in a few threads. With people telling you "we get the hint like 20 times from you". Time to give it a rest.

We get your hint many times over, you want everybody to renew their licenses with no price information coming from IB, or what their overall plan is regarding licensing issues in general. It won't happen mate until IB post a lot more information!

[Scoutie44]

Jelsoft reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

^ taken from license agreement. Sorry, but would someone care to point out where it says 'you indefinately recieve free updates if you renew your license for another year'? I've only been able to find that on the order page, however I would assume the quoted statement, which each vB customer agreed to, would also cover this area.

Not trying to upset the apple cart, and I'm not on IB's side, so please correct me if I am wrong.

[The Smoking Gun!]

Second issue has to do with the licensing changes. That's what this thread is about. No one wants their license screwed with. We paid for a product and supported it loyally over the years. Most us will gladly pay a premium for the add-ons we need for our community but not if they are less adequate than the alternatives. IB needs to balance out the costs of development plus the return they made on investing in vbulletin but they are confined to a certain extent by what the competitors in thier market space are doing. That leaves them few options. One of the few alternatives is to try and charge a little more by switching up the licenses and getting existing license holders to pay an additional fee bit that's not flying well at the moment.

My opinion is that the majority of this could have been avoided with a small amount of foresight. Now the only options are to anger the investors or the customers. Angering the customers (as they are doing right now) is damaging thoer reputation and it's possible that IB may lose customers in the long run. That will hurt revenue in the years to come. So it will be interesting to see how IB plays this. I am looking forward to INET warnings call next week

I would like to interject this with the fact that, two years ago there was no way of knowing that the state of the economy would decline as it has, in our country we hit an unprecedented 10% unemployment rate, this affects everyone, not just those who lost their jobs. IB may have had worthy intentions with this update/copulation of products with the intention of getting a little more for it, and rightly so, but now the market and competition as mentioned, are no longer in a favorable climate to do so, putting them in a kind of hard place, either lose a good reputation and get the money, but in the long term actually end up reducing overall revenues, or let existing licensees get the new version for no additional chanrges and be heroes, but not recover the cost of the work put in to generating the stable code to produce said product!

Jelsoft reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

^ taken from license agreement. Sorry, but would someone care to point out where it says 'you indefinately recieve free updates if you renew your license for another year'? I've only been able to find that on the order page, however I would assume the quoted statement, which each vB customer agreed to, would also cover this area.

Not trying to upset the apple cart, and I'm not on IB's side, so please correct me if I am wrong.

As much as Jelsoft would like you to believe what you brought up as being valid, and it is true, they do have the right to change those terms, but when doing so it would legally, only apply to NEW LICENSEES, existing license holders would be grandfathered in with their license's terms, one cannot just change a contract once it has been implemented, or executed, well not legally anyway and if brought to court in a class action suit, the courts would likely rule in favor of existing license holders.

To that end I would agree with Nick's urging people to go ahead and renew their licenses, it can only serve to protect you from increases in fees!

However if it is proven my statements are inaccurate, then it would not make difference either way, would it! You would either pay the fee and get the new package or just keep the one you paid for!

If I am wrong about this I would like to see the the by laws on the books stating this is inaccurate!

Just my two cents!

TSG!

[Nick]

To that end I would agree with Nick's urging people to go ahead and renew their licenses, it can only serve to protect you from increases in fees!

However if it is proven my statements are inaccurate, then it would not make difference either way, would it! You would either pay the fee and get the new package or just keep the one you paid for!

It's nice to know that there are others around that have some sense.

I would like to clarify though (in response to your above quote and MRGTB's statement) that I am not urging people to renew. Why would I? How does it benefit me? It doesn't.

I am simply relaying Ray's recommendation because it isn't broadcast as much as the negative (lack of) information is, so I am only trying to point out to customers that their vB 4 price will be discounted if they have an active license.

[Blackbook]

To that end I would agree with Nick's urging people to go ahead and renew their licenses, it can only serve to protect you from increases in fees!

Actually, I would think that saving your $60 renewal fee and investing in a company that doesn't treat its customer base like common horse **** would be wiser advice.

The only, ONLY thing keeping me here is the offical announcement. Anything other than "We will honor our agreement with existing customers" will result in me (and plenty of others) leaving and ending all ties with IB.

[chewbacca]

I really hope the old license terms are kept for current owners too because I've recently had to renew. It would turn out to be a pretty huge waste if I had to re-buy a license. Normally I'm not vocal about my opinions, but I'd definitely voice my anger.

Blackbook, it's good that you're being cautious, but you may be better off using $60 to renew than spending possibly more than that amount buying a new license elsewhere. The other community may end up being colder than you anticipated and you'll feel even more like the **** you describe... That said, I can't be sure IB will treat us as well as the former vB developers. However, I think it's a good thing that there are more people working on improving the core code; things seem to be getting done more quickly now.

If the new development team delivers on its promises (OO, MVC), I'll be glad I renewed. If not, I'll just be pissed off and wondering why a new group was even brought in.

A little off-topic: I'm about to go to bed and didn't have time for a detailed search, but does anybody know if vB4 will be making use of PHP 5.2 (i.e., requiring it)? It'd help so much.