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Nothing illegal about it. That's why Amex and charge cards have a group that deals with dispute resolution. It's something the merhants (and IB/Jelsfost by way of thier payment vendors) agree to and it's a service I pay for when normal channels fail to yield results.
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Plan, Do, Check, Act! -
Oh yes there is, it's called theft.
If you used the product at all, attempting a chargeback is illegal. It's not a dispute resolution matter, it is out and out theft.
Just because you don't want to see it as theft doesn't make it any less theft, it is still very much theft to try to steal services like this.Comment
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The computing community is a very well-informed community.
Good reputations are hard-earned.
They are however easily lost by bad management decisions.
Once lost they cannot be regained as the computing community has very long memories.
I fear IB are running out of time on this matter, if it isn't too late already.
Treat your customers like this and you really do deserve to lose your good reputation.
Now when Vbulletin is mentioned in discussions within the community there will always be someone who remembers to add - "but they treat their customers like dirt"
As the days turn into weeks and the weeks into month I am completely bewildered about IB's strategy on this one.
Make a cock-up and you come up with a damage limitation strategy.
Or in IB's case you just ignore your loyal customers, treat them with complete contempt for months and hope it blows over?
This was a community.
vB4 will be the product it is because of customer feedback.
I personally don't feel like contributing any ideas on improving this software free of charge to IB any more ... do you?Comment
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Mmmm.. i think.. vb its doing the things well...
First develop...
Check the product ( take your time if neccesary)
and then... when you're sure the product is ok and stable... so release it...
Most people here are acting crazy.. "release it release it!!!" "stop make us waiting"...
Patience is a virtue... so.. All will be revealed in its time...Comment
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Lucky89: there are two issues
1. The release of vb4. This has been in the work for about two years. It wasn't until the tail end that we find out that work was just beginng. Then sometime later we find out that it would need to come out in stages due to the time frame it would take to recode everything. Through most of this we (the customer) have had little to no updates. Granted this is changing now for the better but it's going to take a while where IB walks the walk before people cool down.
Second issue has to do with the licensing changes. That's what this thread is about. No one wants their license screwed with. We paid for a product and supported it loyally over the years. Most us will gladly pay a premium for the add-ons we need for our community but not if they are less adequate than the alternatives. IB needs to balance out the costs of development plus the return they made on investing in vbulletin but they are confined to a certain extent by what the competitors in thier market space are doing. That leaves them few options. One of the few alternatives is to try and charge a little more by switching up the licenses and getting existing license holders to pay an additional fee bit that's not flying well at the moment.
My opinion is that the majority ofthis could have been avoided with a small amount of foresight. Now the only options are to anger the investors or the customers. Angering the customers (as they are doing right now) is damaging thoer reputation and it's possible that IB may lose customers in the long run. That will hurt revenue in the years to come. So it will be interesting to see how IB plays this. I am looking forward to INET warnings call next weekPlan, Do, Check, Act!Comment
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And a lot of us DON'T! We bought a lifetime license, it's not terminated and life is going on. So to my opinion there should be an option to renew vB4 without al the crap we don't need like blogs and cms etc.Most us will gladly pay a premium for the add-ons we need for our community
You can't force lifetime license customers into changing their contract.
Ofcourse it's logically to wait with the release that you get a good product, but indeed that has nothing to do with pricing. There was already a price raise last year, now let IB/Jelsoft show some client and license respect and also bring a vb4 forum only version, without extra costs, for the lifetime license owners.
Right on! I fully agree!So it will be interesting to see how IB plays this. I am looking forward to INET warnings call next weekGreetings, Black TigerComment
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...Still waiting with my $60. This is really ridiculous.It's an omen...Comment
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I'm confused, if you have a life time license, to me that means owned license, what reason is there for you to need to renew, did I miss something important in those terms????? I can appreciate the upgrade, if significant enough might require an additional fee to vB4, but aside from that why would a lifetime license owner need to renew?
On top of that I thought that life timers get all updates with in a certain period, is that with out extra fees...
Now along with my other concerns, please answer how the part in red applies to a lifetime license? Lifetime means it does not expire, doesn't it?vBulletin (Owned License)
The owned vBulletin Forum license allows you to run the software on your site indefinitely. Along with this license, you will receive one year of free updates. Beyond the first year, a nominal fee of $60 (or $40 if purchased within 60 days of the license expiring) is payable to obtain updates for an additional year.
My understanding is that if vB4 is released before my first year is over, it does not cost me to get this upgrade, is this not correct? It clearly states one year of free updates, an increase in version release is by all definition an update!
Please clarify this for all concerned, I am not very happy when games are played or symantics used to create loopholes in misrepresented agreements! To borrow from a famous quote....please don't make me angry Mr. McGee, you won't like me when i am angry!!!
TSG!Last edited by The Smoking Gun!; Tue 28 Jul '09, 2:03pm. Reason: Additional thought and forgot to subscribe!Comment
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I find this both disturbing and poor business practice, and have seen many a huge corporation go the wayside for such practices.
First off if this does pan out as such, why would anyone wish to report a pirated use? I know if i end up being denied such an upgrade within the period stated, i would no longer report such incidences, as I am sure many others would feel similarly.
Secondly, I just got a sense that possibly I was preferred not to get to respond to this having gotten a notice as soon as arriving, that my subscription to this thread was removed, why would that be, and by whom???
Now I am second guessing my decision of my purchase, and if this post disappears for some moderation reason other than the board not wanting certain truths be known, be aware I took a screen shot just before exiting the site, so it is preserved for eternity and any court needed for starting the class action suit against a company going back on their agreements to get more money out of us poor people just trying to find a place on the web using relatively reliable and feature packed venues for doing so, but your typo "IB" instead of VB causes me to want to further investigate Invision Board as a possible alternative venue.
Trust that I chose my screen name aptly, and am an advocate of righteousness and have caused major corporations to change some of their practices as well as even nationwide banks for their improper use of garnering fees from customers using their overdraft protection when there was sufficient funds available, because of a supposed "glitch" that the loan dept system could not see those funds while every other aspect of the bank's system could. I was refunded a year and a half's worth of interest, as well as forced them to ensure same day funds are "seen" by that system too.
I am curious to see how this all plays out, but truthfully hope things are what they have been represented to be, and I need do nothing!
I really do not want to re-build my forums again!!!
TSG!Comment
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It clearly states that and I really would expect IB/Jelsoft to honor that agreement. That is the right thing to do. After my one is over I have no problem paying an additional fee.
Time will only tell. Everyday I visit the forum expecting to see an announcement....steven
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"I tried to clean this up but this thread is beyond redemption." - Steve Machol
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