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  • Originally posted by Neyland View Post
    As pointed out, making people under current support contracts pay for the upgrade will harm the hobby board owner with no ad generation more than the commercial site. However, we both pay the same yearly subscription rate. This isn't a per CPU/Device/Connection license. Of the boards out there, how many are non revenue generating?

    And as someone else also pointed out... You don't have to give out pricing information, but a lot of things could be cleared up by simply clarifying the upgrade policy for those currently under support contracts.

    The inability to clarify that one question says how heavily they are considering it. I have a feeling they have already decided we're going to pay, the question is just how much.

    People like to throw I'm gonna sue around... but they know nobody typically does. That's not saying the bandwagon might get full should someone perform a class action, but at the end of the day the impact will be felt in subscriptions.

    Personally I'm up in Oct. and have maintained my support since I purchased the software in '04. But as of right now, I'm doing a lot of leg work on porting possibilities. I don't care what kind of legalize you wrap it up in, the people here expect to get the upgrade for free if they have a current active owned license. Otherwise, there wouldn't be all this issue and internal considerations going on.

    Make me pay for an upgrade while under support contract and I'll easily drop $200 for another product if for no other reason than to not do business with a company that has failed to meet my expectations.

    Economically that may not sound like the best choice, but I simply will not reward bad behavior.
    Well said Neyland. It's pretty simple. Since Jelsoft has not responded at all to any of this makes me think that they are attempting to charge but going through their "legal team" to see what types of repercussions this may have and/or crunching number on how many lost subscriptions they may encounter vs. the number of new subscriptions at the new price. If they decide to charge everyone, no matter how anyone looks at it, it's a breach of contract and they CAN be held legally liable. Whether anyone takes it to that level is another story

    People most likely will never sue because it's not worth the money for an individual. Now there may be a class action lawsuit but the only people that every win on those are the lawyers. I for one, woulld not sue but I sure as heck would not renew my subscription or purchase anything else from Jelsoft ever.

    Jelsoft has to weigh its options and it's most likely what they are doing now which is why we haven't heard anything. They have a choice whether to keep their agreement intact or break their agreement and charge customers. If they choose the latter they will lose customers and their reputation will be tarnished.

    Comment


    • So, we've been given another 'vb4 update' - yet nothing on this subject. Great job team...Way to bug the finance team over your customers questions/concerns.

      for christs' sake.
      It's an omen...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Blackbook View Post
        So, we've been given another 'vb4 update' - yet nothing on this subject. Great job team...Way to bug the finance team over your customers questions/concerns.

        for christs' sake.
        Why do some people take so long to realize that being negative isn't going to help? Enough people are already criticizing vB/IB's every move. They don't need more people doing that.
        Regards,
        Nick

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Nick View Post
          Why do some people take so long to realize that being negative isn't going to help? Enough people are already criticizing vB/IB's every move. They don't need more people doing that.
          I'm sure they don't ... this is a PR disaster. IB/Jelsoft's fault for not handling it properly.
          I hope more people criticise, it might make IB think twice about screwing us over with this VB4 license structure change.

          Every individual is entitled to an opinion even if you think it's negative.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nick View Post
            Why do some people take so long to realize that being negative isn't going to help? Enough people are already criticizing vB/IB's every move. They don't need more people doing that.
            and when are you going to realise that they wont give you a free license just because you're backing them up.

            They deserve it. They need to realise that they were and are continuing to be appalling. More people should be voicing it (as they were so sure in their private undermining of public opinion...which I've referred to already in this topic).
            It's an omen...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Nick View Post
              Why do some people take so long to realize that being negative isn't going to help? Enough people are already criticizing vB/IB's every move. They don't need more people doing that.
              Nick, we get it. You support Jelsoft. In YOUR eyes, they are totally in the right. But just because you believe this doesn't mean it's right or that others are not entitled to their opinions. It's the general consensus of this thread that most customers perceive Jelsoft is in the wrong and perception is reality.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by El Burro View Post
                I'm sure they don't ... this is a PR disaster. IB/Jelsoft's fault for not handling it properly.
                I hope more people criticise, it might make IB think twice about screwing us over with this VB4 license structure change.

                Every individual is entitled to an opinion even if you think it's negative.
                Yes, everybody is entitled to an opinion, and that includes me.
                But what good does repeating the same opinion do? Complaining about the same thing several times per day accomplishes absolutely nothing.

                Originally posted by Blackbook View Post
                and when are you going to realise that they wont give you a free license just because you're backing them up.
                I don't know. I was thinking that I'm really close to getting that license.

                I'm backing them up? I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know, even though you're wrong. I'm not here for anybody except myself. I don't know if you have checked out some of the threads and ventured past your own, but all of these complaints and idiotic threats are everywhere. 80% of the threads I read contain the same ignorant "if IB doesn't fix this, I'm leaving"-like comments. You know what I think in response to those? "Great, good for you! Thanks for sharing".
                IB knows well enough that they need to think carefully about what they do. But when the ignorant customers come around making silly threats and complaints (falsely thinking that their single complaint will be what causes IB to change) it gets rather annoying.

                Originally posted by Blackbook View Post
                They deserve it. They need to realise that they were and are continuing to be appalling. More people should be voicing it (as they were so sure in their private undermining of public opinion...which I've referred to already in this topic).
                Opinions have been spoken and voices have been heard. The truth is that there is no reasoning with IB. They are going to do what they want and customers must deal with it.

                In this case, they screwed up (the leak) but it may have been a blessing in disguise. They got feedback before they even unveiled their plans, which is a benefit to them.

                Everybody has given them a piece of their mind here. Why keep doing so? Once per customer is enough.

                Originally posted by rgf207 View Post
                Nick, we get it. You support Jelsoft. In YOUR eyes, they are totally in the right.
                Again, you're wrong (see above). Since you seem to know everything about me, why don't you tell me what I ate for breakfast this morning, too?

                -

                You all seem to think that I have no concerns whatsoever about the things that are to come. You think that I support IB and am trying to "look good".

                But you are all sadly mistaken. The truth is that I have realized that voices of concern have been heard and the only thing left to do is wait (do you honestly think that your little threats and lectures will make them change their plans? You are a mere individual customer and don't compare to the masses). IB got a big enough reaction to realize that they need to think about every little move carefully.
                I have faith in the company that they will make good decisions and act in favor of current license-holders. They aren't stupid enough to screw us over, and that's what I have confidence in.

                When are you guys going to grow up and realize that you should have a little trust? IB is not a new company and they have a good idea of what they are doing. And in defense of the recent mishaps on the forum: you can't expect somebody/something to be able to please everybody, especially when under substantial stress like they have been. IB has been the target of hate and anger lately.
                Regards,
                Nick

                Comment


                • Yes, everybody is entitled to an opinion, and that includes me.
                  But what good does repeating the same opinion do? Complaining about the same thing several times per day accomplishes absolutely nothing.
                  Nick in recent posts you've called one user ignorant and attacked people for expressing negative opinions about IB/Jelsoft.

                  Complaining about the same thing day after day lets IB/Jelsoft know that more and more of their loyal customers are really pi**ed with the proposed license change,

                  Their pathetic lack of communication with their customers only compounds this.

                  Hope you get the free license or a job if that's what you are after.

                  If I suggested that you should stop expressing your opinions I'd be infringing on your right to free speech. So please don't try to stop people expressing their opinion on this ongoing crisis which is entirely of IB's making not ours.

                  They've had months to lay this to rest.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Nick View Post
                    I'm backing them up? I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know, even though you're wrong. I'm not here for anybody except myself. I don't know if you have checked out some of the threads and ventured past your own, but all of these complaints and idiotic threats are everywhere. 80% of the threads I read contain the same ignorant "if IB doesn't fix this, I'm leaving"-like comments. You know what I think in response to those? "Great, good for you! Thanks for sharing".
                    IB knows well enough that they need to think carefully about what they do. But when the ignorant customers come around making silly threats and complaints (falsely thinking that their single complaint will be what causes IB to change) it gets rather annoying.
                    Actually, they need more and more people to show their dissatisfaction. They are arrogant enough to suggest that all these complaints are of a 'small minority' and that we do not reflect any concernable percentage of their customer base.

                    So, your suggestion is wrong for both us the consumers, and them. It would be best for everyone if EVERYONE who had a niggle or concern to post. every-single-one. Sorry you can't troll the forums and make your 'GO IB' cheer leading chant in every single thread. We get it...we know what you think. We've seen it in more than enough posts. Shh now.

                    Opinions have been spoken and voices have been heard.
                    Proof? I've not seen any post here from the financial team or those responsible for this?


                    Again, you're wrong (see above). Since you seem to know everything about me, why don't you tell me what I ate for breakfast this morning, too?
                    No need for this bullsh**.


                    But you are all sadly mistaken. The truth is that I have realized that voices of concern have been heard and the only thing left to do is wait (do you honestly think that your little threats and lectures will make them change their plans? You are a mere individual customer and don't compare to the masses). IB got a big enough reaction to realize that they need to think about every little move carefully.
                    I have faith in the company that they will make good decisions and act in favor of current license-holders. They aren't stupid enough to screw us over, and that's what I have confidence in.
                    You may still have faith (blind faith if i may be so bold) with this company, but I have absolutely no faith in a company that's planning on making consumers pay twice for a product...or, one that breaks their licenses with their customers.

                    sure, we as individuals arn't going to change **** - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to post here and share our concerns with and get this NOT YOU. You arn't ****. You are a fanboy. Stfu! No ones asking you anything. You do not need to justify or answer anything as you arn't an anyone. Please...go away.

                    When are you guys going to grow up and realize that you should have a little trust? IB is not a new company and they have a good idea of what they are doing. And in defense of the recent mishaps on the forum: you can't expect somebody/something to be able to please everybody, especially when under substantial stress like they have been. IB has been the target of hate and anger lately.
                    See above.

                    ( btw - for a thread that doesn't matter or is useless, its the third most replied to thread in this topic since vb3 was released. Not that I give a flying pig....I would rather a meaningful update )
                    Last edited by Blackbook; Sun 19th Jul '09, 10:37pm.
                    It's an omen...

                    Comment


                    • Agreed.

                      All I read is "what is the pricing?!"

                      I do not think, "when is the new release done" is the majority of everyone's conern.

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                      • So let me get this straight...

                        The new IB policy is spend spend spend, blindly, and shut up about how our policies will affect your relationship with us because we can't answer the questions you pose as a customer. We're great and you will follow us blindly.

                        Wow, that's not much of an improvement over Jelsoft.

                        Why doesn't IB just make it clear, the product is no longer vBulletin and it's not about your community growing, it's about our profit margin growing, so spend spend spend, NOW!?

                        It's written on the wall, just not articulated yet and it's not looking like very good PR as a customer or an outsider.

                        I feel like I'm watching a dead fish on the beach in the throws of death, not the resurrection of vBulletin into the new era of community software. I'm not of the mind to throw the symbolic life line to the fish, pronounced money, and neither are most of the folks I'm reading here. WAKE UP IB and stop the arrogance. It's not good customer relations. That part of your company policies was supposed to die with Jelsoft. Perhaps you should trim the staff even further? Perhaps you should give your customers policies rather than use fear to incite them to spend now?

                        It's as if your arrogance has grown to the point where you think we follow blindly? I think you are seeing that a few sheep will, but not enough to float a company. Remember, vBulletin is generations behind many other community software and we have no incentive to believe that will change. All we know is the price will go up. ( I won't post the names of those softwares as to not embarrass anyone)

                        News flash, with those current free software packages available that trump vBulletin, I think the typical vBulletin smugness of the past is going to be just that, of the past. There can be no future in a company that has such a poor marketing plan and an even worse talking relationship with it's existing customers. (condescending)

                        Time to step up to the plate with a plan and stop asking for money until you do, IB.

                        But, I'm used to being ignored around here, as is everyone else from the tone of these threads about the lack of policies coming from IB, it appears.

                        The market WILL sort it out though. That's too bad. I expected IB to be a better organized company with better customer relations than Jelsoft and to have a plan. None of that has been realized though.
                        Computer Help Forum
                        An informed rider makes their first destination the motorcycle forum at rider info.

                        Comment


                        • "noppid", you only have to look how many old faces are no longer taking part in discussion here anymore to see how things have changed for the worse. Even I no longer post daily anymore like I used too, and I'm losing more and more interest in this site by the day.

                          All that seems to be left now (active posters wise), is a handful of new customers, and a small fraction of the old school customers. With some of those old school customers asking people to part with their money in as many post as they can. Poeple have wised-up, and until IB announce their pricing plans I think the majority of customers here now will refuse to renew their licences.

                          IB have been trying to persuade people into renewing their licenses by indicating "they may have to pay even more if they don't before vB4 is released". I've even noticed one of the staff members (from the German site) posting asking people to renew their licences openly here. Looks like things are not quite working like IB expected they would, and too many people are refusing to renew until they release full pricing details.

                          And rightly so!!

                          Comment


                          • Once IB states pricing structure, I bet customers will come back. It doesn't matter how much they spend they know they will get there price out the door for early adopters and can pass on the savings to customers when they start to see it plane off. Looks like an Apple iPhone strategy.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rgf207 View Post
                              People most likely will never sue because it's not worth the money for an individual. Now there may be a class action lawsuit but the only people that every win on those are the lawyers. I for one, woulld not sue but I sure as heck would not renew my subscription or purchase anything else from Jelsoft ever.
                              It's easier to let Amex handle it.
                              Plan, Do, Check, Act!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Reeve of Shinra View Post
                                It's easier to let Amex handle it.
                                THAT would be illegal
                                While I'm not for getting ripped off, I'm also a business owner, so there's a fine line there to me.

                                People need to be paid, so I can see a minor upgrade (< $30-50) fee, and may or may not pay it, but the point to the whole thing is communication. IB needs to get off of their collective tails, admit screwups, apologize to their customers and move on.

                                If you've downloaded the code, you can't launch a chargeback, because you've "used" the product. The catch is that they can't (legally) change the terms of that purchase.

                                Comment

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