Vbulletin ought to get rid of the leased license

[Zachery]

ok........ Is what you mean is that you get free updates for a year when you buy it? Also, I heard something about SMF that you can't import the passwords but only the Messages. Also, Could you update it if I requested it before I buy VBulletin?

Also, I'm just saying that I agree that there is no point to leased licenses unless you can run it forever. I mean, you have to update your VB sometime or another. So, thats what I'm tryin to say.

As I've said some people prefer a lease, others don't. An owned license lets you get access to vBulletin for life. a leased license does not.

SMF's password storage is not transfer compatable at this time, so its most likely not possible to get it working in any near future. You need your users to reset their password via emails.

If you have any more presales questions please use the pre-sales forums or http://www.vbulletin.com/go/sales.

[Quillz]

As for competing with IPB and WBB - as you can see vB developers live with their prices. I wouldn't switch to IPB even if it was free just because: it's code is a mess and 90% of features came after vB devs added them to their product.

And about the price: well, you knew what's going to happen after a year. If you would buy owned license you wouldn't have to remove your vB copy. I live in Poland, and it's harder here to buy a licence and I've managed to do it. And one leased license is a 1/4 of the average salary/month in Poland.

Of course, IPB users would argue that vB's coding is a mess, and 90% of the vB 3.6 features came after IPS added them into IPB.

What I'm trying to say here is that neither product is really "better" feature-wise, so it's really the pricing that can make or break it. I think that vB offers a better value than IPB when you "own" the product. Therefore, Jelsoft should do what they can to encourage owned licenses as opposed to leased licenses. Because of this, I think having to pay $85/year should be encouragement enough, as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the owned license is cheaper in the long run.

[dragula_31]

correct me if i was wrong, but as far as i know, if i have owned license, i will get free security patch and support for "lifetime" and i have free version update for 1 year only. (beside i can install it for lifetime, for me that's mean i own it).

i think leased license is needed for people to try all the feature in real live or for commercial use is to give them some times for collecting the fund first. (if they really need and want to use vBulletin)
about the price, i agree that the price is to high. But i understand that "Most of the software piracy, fraud and scams we deal with are related to leased licenses which are far out of proportion of these licenses sold.".
So i agree with Mr.Machol said "Personally I would be in favor of dropping leased license altogether or only offering them in an encrypted format".
Another reason is to give "routine income" for jelsoft beside from renewal. This is for developing and maintaining the software. I believe it is fair enough to collect fund from renewal service. (just in case that there's few or even no new costumer buy the license..:lol:..how jelsoft can coverage the all expenditure cost for running the company?)

I think it was about something that will suit for you. You can freely choose what board that you're gonna use. you can use the free one or non-free. Each board has his own unique policy. So it all depends on your requirement and consideration. If you don't like the policy from one board, you can choose another board.
For example is me. Actualy the board that really fit for me is IPB, vBulletin doesn't have built-in warning sustem (before 3.6). I really go order IPB, but when my payment was pending and i sent support request, i've change my mind. I have sent 2 support tickets asking for news from my payment and never get reply in 3 days. In my third support ticket, i beg them just to reply "your order is still on confirmation", and they reply it on the 4th day with my order beeing cancel because they detect it as fraud (lucky me..:lol: ). In other way..i'm not impressed by their support. If they treat the potensial costumer like this, how they will threat the customer?
I've change my mind because i go to paid board for getting better support.
So i go with vBulletin although it doesn't have built in warning system. My thought is..support is no 1 in my mind, feature is no.2 (another lucky for me...in 3.6 that warning system is built in )
So..i think it was only your requirement. if one board not really satisfy you, find another one. If you find the suitable but don't like the policy, there's nothing you can do, they have the right to do so (as long as it was legitimate by the law).

[Lenni]

What about:

Leased - 85US$ - Free to use for one year, updates free for one year, support free for one year.

Owned - 160US$ - Free to use as long as you want, updates for one year, support for as long as you want.

Supreme - 200US$ - Free to use as long as you want, updates as long as you want, support as long as you want.

Now back then i would have gone with the supreme package.
Kind of troublesome, paypal deactivated, now in china.

[Quillz]

That "supreme" package you suggest would put Jelsoft out of business. If something like that was to ever be offered, it would have to cost much more, maybe as much as $1,000.

[Zachery]

What about:

Leased - 85US$ - Free to use for one year, updates free for one year, support free for one year.

Owned - 160US$ - Free to use as long as you want, updates for one year, support for as long as you want.

Supreme - 200US$ - Free to use as long as you want, updates as long as you want, support as long as you want.

Now back then i would have gone with the supreme package.
Kind of troublesome, paypal deactivated, now in china.

I'd have to go on Quillz, not that its likely but it'd be a large cost. That whole 40 US only covers an additional 15 months of support.

[bairy]

I purchased my VB leased license in May of 2005 and obviously it expired and I had to remove the software, which I did. So basically I'm out $85 and what do I have to show for it?...... Nothing.

You've had a year's usage. That's not "nothing" in the true respect.

I know what you mean though. I'm not sure the 30 days to upgrade idea is the best for customers. How will you know if your forum will be a success after 30 days? Paying $85 and then $160 on top seems ... well, a good business strategy
However even $85 + $160 isn't so bad for what you get. Don't forget you get access to vb.org for free hacks too.


I have a related question. You're required to remove the software after a leased license expires. What happens if you don't remove it?

[gulldarek]

Of course, IPB users would argue that vB's coding is a mess, and 90% of the vB 3.6 features came after IPS added them into IPB.

What I'm trying to say here is that neither product is really "better" feature-wise, so it's really the pricing that can make or break it. I think that vB offers a better value than IPB when you "own" the product. Therefore, Jelsoft should do what they can to encourage owned licenses as opposed to leased licenses. Because of this, I think having to pay $85/year should be encouragement enough, as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the owned license is cheaper in the long run.

Just look how IPB source code looks. Geez, it's really a trash. I can easilly change vBulletin from bulletin board software to article-system software or anything I wan't because vB code is clear and understandable.

Example: in one of IPB functions they use str_replace(); function 8 times for one string, so it looks like:

$string = str_replace('a', 'b', $string);
$string = str_replace('c', 'd', $string);
$string = str_replace('e', 'f', $string);
$string = str_replace('g', 'h', $string); 

etc.

or they have something like that:

if (condition)
{
  $some = 'code';
}

if (!condition)
{
  $some = 'not_code';
} 

You know what I mean?

[Blue-inc]

They'll send you an email telling you to get a license or to remove the files from the server. If you don't comply they'll most probably contact your host, if the host doesn't comply, Jesloft will file a DMCA report and contact the hosts data centre.
<--<3-<3---<3-<3-->

I think the leased license shouldn't be there, as many fraudent sales do go through people buying leased, as I have seen it on many warez forums, where they have found out some one's credit card information and bought a vB license, then they sell it onto other people the man who actually owns the credit card sends a report to the bank telling them to call a charge back on the money, and the vBulletin account is cancelled and the man who bought the license of the fraudent person has spent money on nothing.

So yeah, I don't really like leased licenses, and I don't see the point in them if you're only having the software for a year to run. As to why I bought an owned license.

[hornstar6969]

Currently IPB boards are under attack, i know of about 5 big ones that have been attacked by both white hat hackers and black hat hackers, IPB is taking too long to patch there software.

Vbulletin on the other hand will fix any exploits within 24 hours. and offers great support.

That is the difference

[Digital2]

I have a related question. You're required to remove the software after a leased license expires. What happens if you don't remove it?

Then you would be considered to be using the software without a legal license to do so. vBulletin could possibly take legal action (the effectiveness of which would depend on where you reside). In the end, you could probably "get away" with it. The courts (at least here in the US) seem to not take internet matters very seriously yet. In reality this is more dependant on the honor system.

As a rule, people who buy their software simply have enough respect for them to honor the agreement. After all, we want development to continue on this great product and that means that Jelsoft has to have operating capital. A lease is a lease, after all. When you lease a car you are required to return it after the lease has expired. You know this before you lease it and you had the option of buying rather than leasing. It was a conscious decision to lease and, even if it was the wrong decision, we have to live with it and chalk it up to experience. I simply paid for an owned license up front and eliminated the worries. I will also pay for updates as time goes on. I have used almost every forum software package out there and none of them even come close to rivaling vBulletin. I will pay them the money with a smile on my face every year.

Security and functionality are priceless. This is where the developers of "free" open source software fall short. They are so anti-capitalistic (mostly because they want to avoid being like their arch-enemy Microsoft) that they overlook the simple fact that they could build a better product if they had a steady income coming in from it. I am all for the open source movement but when it comes to the security of my site I want proprietary software running on it where, if something breaks or gets hacked, there is some accountability. It only takes one trip to a phpBB support board to realize that you are on your own if your phpBB board gets hacked. The support here alone is worth every penny.

[RichM]

The fact that vBulletin has more than one pricing scheme, is only a good thing for its customers, as it's simply offering flexibility. I do not see why any customer would complain about a company offering flexible payment schemes, especially when it has caused the company some problems. (As Steve had pointed out)

By reading your post, it is clear that your problem is not with leased licenses in itself, but in actual fact, the cost. vBulletin is a commercial product and in my opinion, it's well worth the cost.

In some ways, running a successful forum has similarities to running a business. You have to plan for the future, you have to market your website and you have to consider overheads and how you're going to pay for them. It is not Jelsoft's fault, nor is it their responsibility if their customers fail to do this.

[I-Web]

I have a related question. You're required to remove the software after a leased license expires. What happens if you don't remove it?

As a web host if Jelsoft reports a site to us that is using an expired or "nulled version" on our servers upon reciept of such a report the site would be suspended and the owner contacted asking for the removal.
Failure to do so within a reasonable time scale would result in the site being terminated

[bairy]

Just to disclaim myself, I asked more out of curiousity than anything.
My license has a few months left on it. When it comes close to expiring I'll probably get a perma-license (depends how much I can raise really).

I wasn't asking so I could formulate the best way to keep it illegally

[harishankar]

Got the owned license straight off the bat and didn't even bother considering the leased option. I think the greatest advantage of the owned license is that even if you have to pull down a forum sometime, you can still use it later on for another forum you start (provided of course you update your status with Jelsoft).

As far as pricing goes I think leased license should probably be slightly less than half the owned license. But of course, I can understand Jelsoft's pricing policy on this one and they want peope to prefer the owned license. Less hassles that way.