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  • #31
    Well this has actually been much more helpful than I thought it was going to be. Thanks to everyone that helped. I am still going to do some more research, but I now know more about both products. I don't think I'll be disappointed with either board I pick. Both sound like great products. I just need to figure out which I think will suit my site best. Thanks again!

    Comment


    • #32
      I agree with whitegrowl.(Yes,I actually read that long post,-_-ll)
      The reason why I'm hesitant to buy VB3 is because the last major release was a year ago,and if that is their regular release schedule the it looks like I'll have to keep forking $30 for every major release.Also IPB2.1 can be seen on invisions website and it seems to be matching or surpassing VB3.
      However VB3 support is better,but IPB is cheaper.

      Comment


      • #33
        Baki, then we are about due for a big update don't you think

        Anyway, if it comes down to it and your download access runs out, BUT, there is not large version that you wish to update to out, then you don't pay. Its not mandatory.


        You are not paying for a "zip" file, you are paying for whats inside which is thousands of hours of our developers work poured into this product.

        When I was just a customer, I knew that if at 3am in the morining that I had a problem. I could come onto the forums or the ticket system post a question and get an anwser. God forbid it be like IPB and I have a serrious problem but I can't afford the 30 dollars that day.

        With vB, you pay for the continuing updates, security fixes, with the renewal fee (along with everything else really). with IPB you are paying for their support.

        The argument could go on for ages, it really comes down to a personal prefrence. In 2002, I chose vB. If I did not feel that they were going to be around for the next 3-5 years then I wouldn't have bought it.

        Comment


        • #34
          With phpBB if you do a mod you have to modify every theme to get it to work. Is it the same for vB?
          Styles can have child styles and child styles retain the modifications you make to the parent . In other words it depends on how you have styles set up, say you have them like this:

          -parent 1
          -parent 2

          You would have to make the said modification to both styles, but if you use child styles like so:

          -parent1
          --child1
          --child2
          -parent2

          Any modification made to parent1 will show up in child1 and child2 styles, but would not show up in parent2.

          If I do a lot of mods to my site, how hard is it to upgrade to different versions?
          In most cases this is not a problem, you just upload the fresh php files, run the upgrade scripts, and you are on the latest version. If you want to keep your hacks between upgrades it will become a chore ofcourse, there are many methods disscussed at www.vbulletin.org (the offical modification/hacking site) that make upgrading and retaining your hacks easier.

          If I get one of those third party CMSs for vB and then vB comes out with theirs how hard is it going to be to switch to it?
          At this time no one can tell you this, because the product has not been released, beta tested, or shown to the public, for all we know it might not exist!

          Also, how much is the CMS thing going to cost? I like the ability to have mods and stuff, but I do NOT want that to interfere with support or upgrades.
          About the CMS see above. For your second question, they will not interfere with upgrading in most cases, jelsoft does not officaly support hacked forums but you can always get support at www.vbulletin.org and more often then not the team will help you in the forums here aswell.

          I think you will have no regrets about purchasing vBulletin if you do, years ago I switched from ubb and never looked back. I like the way jelsoft operates, in my experance they have always taken care of their customers and most importantly listened to them. The support is way above par and our community is filled with people that do all sorts of things related to working on the web, many with years of experance.

          A lot of people say things are moving way to slow over here now a days, but they forget we are awaiting the next major release which should include many new fetures and be for the most part an entire re-code of the source. You will also hear a lot of talk about how we don't have roadmaps or newsletters overhere but imho none of that matters, the devs are always working on something and when they have something ready for the public they show it.

          At any rate, you should try both and figure out what works for you, happy hunting

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by SeriousSam
            Well vB got some really unique features for sure ...but IPB runs faster, easy to MOD and very fast while moving a site even with MODs or Hacks ....restoring vB database takes like ages its bulkier and can be a resource hog thats wat i heard so far bout vbulletin from ur own members...however IPB needs some more quality features like superadmin, which they said is coming soon
            What? IPB does not run faster, not proven, not in my opinion. Same goes for vBulletin. The speed of a hacked board depends on the hacks, not on the plain product.

            Restoring the database takes ages? Use the shell, a howto can be found in the manual...

            Can be bulkier/resource hog. Open for dicussion, depends on what you want. If you dont want it turn it off and it won't use the resources it would require to operate it.

            Whoever gave you all this info, tell him to get lost and find a better source...

            Note (here comes a personal touch)
            vB is also working on a new major release, but unlike IPB, they decided against putting up a bloody alpha version on their official support forums. THATS BLOODY STUPID! YOU DONT DO THAT STUFF! If you make a new car, you dont fill the show room with the test models that havent reached the final build yet!
            A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed "to whom it may concern"

            Comment


            • #36
              If you want a comparison between vB and IPB....how about this.

              The last support ticket I put in with IPB took 5 days to get a sort of answer....via the ticket itself and the Forum. I had to put it on the forum as well because they were not responding to the ticket.
              Then to complicate matters more, kids started jumping on the thread and telling me to wait because "Matt deserved a day off".
              I'd already waited 5 days FFS.
              And at the end of that fiasco, I still couldn't get a definitive answer.

              This wasn't the first instance of this happening so after 3 years as an IPS customer I switched to vB.
              And what a difference! If you need support here....then you got it. When you want it!
              In fact, I posted in the support forum here this morning and as usual I got a staff answer within 5 minutes....not 5 days. And the issue wasn't even related to vB, it was down to my Hosts.

              I still have my IPB licence so I can access their support forums to see what's going on.
              And there's a lot of regular posts saying...."Hello, hello....is there anybody there?......My ticket still hasn't been answered!"
              And that doesn't happen here.

              Summary:
              I'm not technically qualified to say which is the better piece of software.
              But in the area of customer support it's a one horse race.
              And anybody doing a comparison should bear that in mind....it could be the issue that makes or breaks your community.
              Last edited by Unmutual; Mon 9 May '05, 4:56am.
              Homes-Spain

              Comment


              • #37
                Adding one little thing or 2, a thread like this wouldn't see the light on IPB's support forum, it would've been binned ages ago. That should tell you something right there.

                Also my co-admin has an IPB "owned" license, but when she decided to go with her new board, she went with vB and we splitted half/half on the license.

                This support board is an excellant resource in addition to answering questions. Doing a search has helped me many times.
                Kim

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by KimmiKat
                  Adding one little thing or 2, a thread like this wouldn't see the light on IPB's support forum, it would've been binned ages ago. That should tell you something right there.

                  Also my co-admin has an IPB "owned" license, but when she decided to go with her new board, she went with vB and we splitted half/half on the license.

                  This support board is an excellant resource in addition to answering questions. Doing a search has helped me many times.
                  KimmiKat's right!
                  Plus....if I used the same username here as I do on IPB I'd probably have my forum access revoked for what I put in my earlier post.
                  Even though it's the truth and I can link to both relevant threads to authenticate what I said, I'd be nuked from there.
                  Sad state of affairs IMO.
                  Homes-Spain

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by whitetigergrowl
                    "How well do they communicate with their fans about their intentions and future releases?"

                    IPB has a roadmap that you can follow stating whats coming, whats been cancelled, etc. Vbulletin says nothing. Paying member or not, you'll never know whats coming until it happens. Could be something you've been wanting or you could go 8 security updates later, almost 1 year later before anything is added. Take into consideration really nothing has been added since VB3's release almost a year ago. Search these forums, people are starting to get restless because of this. So you have to question, would you rather go with someone that has their boards features intentions known, or someone that would rather not say anything to you? Might come now, or 1 year from now. And btw, IPB hasn't stated a release date and seem unconcerned about VB or anyone else seeing whats coming. They aren't doing the roadmap for themselves, but rather so people know what is/is not coming so they can get a better idea of if IPB will be offering something they may be looking for. Would you go with someone that says nothing?
                    As a former customer of IPS and probable future customer of Jelsoft I find that it is just the opposite of what you wrote. On IPS's forums, non-customers and even some customers can not read many of the forums and are thereby prevented from getting a true idea of what is going on. On vBulletin's forums customer and non-customer alike can read pretty much all the forums and customer posts, questions, complaints and feedback. This community of openess is sorely lacking on IPS's forums and they have been known to ban their customers for just posting negative feedback (see my sig). If you want to know what's comming up for the next vB release it isn't hard to find that info...

                    http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62743

                    Good luck trying to read through actual customer questions on IPS' forums to get a feel for how the company relates to its customers. You can't. You can freely read those posts on vBulletin, and from what I've read, vB does not have a company culture that is prone to banning its paying customers for just posting feedback on the forum that may not be of the most positive nature, unlike IPS's practices. I think both products are very well written pieces of software, but its also important to understand the culture and professionalism of the company you plan to become a customer of.
                    Last edited by GreggH; Mon 9 May '05, 5:45pm.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Omri Shuster
                      well i can tell you right now what system is better for you if you will just write how many users you would like the have...
                      *editing:IPB is not so good for allot of user's when IPB have's somthing like 10,000 user's it get's kind of funny... (not hahah)
                      it cant hold along with allot of user's... it's for small community
                      I wouldn't say that. The Philadelphia Eagles message board is IPB. It has almost 100,000 members. It often has over 1,000 members logged in, even more during an actual game, and there has never been a problem.
                      pSeriesTech.Org (vBulletin) -> Power-Systems.Org (xenForo)
                      POWER to the people

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Zachery
                        With vB, you pay for the continuing updates, security fixes, with the renewal fee (along with everything else really). with IPB you are paying for their support.
                        But which is more important? That all important security update that plugs the all important security hole that can exploit ones website if found and used and not plugged...or the tech support on how to do it? (Which is usually as simple as just overwriting the current files.)

                        As for not seeing IPB's forums to guage what people think. I find that to be the contrary. At least for these:

                        Company Product and Services Feedback forum (You would think this could help guage peoples ideals of the actual service. If the service sucks, you can find out here.)

                        (link removed) ..

                        Pre-Sales Questions (Members post in here as well.)

                        (link removed) ..


                        And for those saying Vbulletin is more secure than IPB 2.0....than can they explain these?:

                        http://secunia.com/product/3212/ (Vbulletin 3) Currently, 0 out of 5 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

                        http://secunia.com/graph/?type=imp&period=all&prod=3212

                        --------------------------------------------------------

                        http://secunia.com/product/3705/ (IPB 2) Currently, 0 out of 5 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

                        http://secunia.com/graph/?type=imp&period=all&prod=3705


                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        As a former customer of IPS and probable future customer of Jelsoft I find that it is just the opposite of what you wrote. On IPS's forums, non-customers and even some customers can not read many of the forums and are thereby prevented from getting a true idea of what is going on. On vBulletin's forums customer and non-customer alike can read pretty much all the forums and customer posts, questions, complaints and feedback. This community of openess is sorely lacking on IPS's forums and they have been known to ban their customers for just posting negative feedback (see my sig). If you want to know what's comming up for the next vB release it isn't hard to find that info...

                        http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62743

                        Good luck trying to read through actual customer questions on IPS' forums to get a feel for how the company relates to its customers. You can't. You can freely read those posts on vBulletin, and from what I've read, vB does not have a company culture that is prone to banning its paying customers for just posting feedback on the forum that may not be of the most positive nature, unlike IPS's practices. I think both products are very well written pieces of software, but its also important to understand the culture and professionalism of the company you plan to become a customer of.
                        Your sig means nothing. Do you have a screen cap of that actual pm or posts in question? For all we know you could just be disgruntled for any # of reasons and are saying the stuff to just bad mouth them. Screen caps are your best friend. Just looking at words on a screen that can easily be falsified otherwise means nothing. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. Only you really know. But it doesn't mean any one else cares since we don't know the real situation or whole situation beyond 1 mans word. There are always 2 sides to every story. And btw, did you read IPS's forum rules before making your posts or pm's? I thought they were very clear. I abide by them and have no problems and neither do many others. Just like Jelsoft has rules. Follow them and your ok. Don't and your odds of getting the boot are better. But like I said, you are only proving it to you and very few others with that sig. But anyways...

                        Theres a difference between whats actually coming...and what is suggested. I can (and many many have) suggest they get their post readings right...but that might not happen until VB4 at this rate. Thats been a big thing since VB3 came out...and I can see even on board at 3.0.7 that its still not fixed. I mean really, how is it IPB can do it even mostly right...and VB still can't? IMO. Especially 7 updates later.

                        I can also see why threads like this get closed or deleted on IPB. Let's face it, what good has it really done? What productivity has it shown to the board other than the fact the IPB and VB fanboys can box back and forth. How is a thread like this helpful to the board or community. It's not. Besides...look back..threads like this HAVE gotten closed on Vbulletin. So those saying only IPB does it is very wrong and misinforming.

                        Besides, I would rather know whats coming or even some of what to expect in the next release, than play these stupid guessing games and HOPE that some of the suggestions have made it in. Wanna SEE what IPB 2.1 has coming? Take a peek for yourselves:

                        (link removed) .. check their web site.

                        Can the next VB release compare? Or will it start to fall behind? And notice how it actually shows the correct topic and forum marking? Unlike VB3 since..well..the beginning. Hundreds of thousands of complaints later...and still no fix and no guarantee it'll be properly fixed in the next release. Go ahead...keep guessing.
                        Last edited by Floris; Tue 10 May '05, 12:30pm.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          As for not seeing IPB's forums to guage what people think. I find that to be the contrary. At least for these:

                          Company Product and Services Feedback (You would think this could help guage peoples ideals of the actual service. If the service sucks, you can find out here.)

                          http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showforum=30

                          Pre-Sales Questions (Members post in here as well.)

                          http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showforum=186
                          That is worthless imho! As a guest here you can read every forum a customer has access to, this allows you to see how support operates. At ipb these forums are closed up tight.

                          And for those saying Vbulletin is more secure than IPB 2.0....than can they explain these?:

                          http://secunia.com/product/3212/ (Vbulletin 3) Currently, 0 out of 5 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

                          http://secunia.com/graph/?type=imp&period=all&prod=3212

                          --------------------------------------------------------

                          http://secunia.com/product/3705/ (IPB 2) Currently, 0 out of 5 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

                          http://secunia.com/graph/?type=imp&period=all&prod=3705


                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Again pointless, we have our own bug tracker here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/bugs.php

                          Yes there are some bugs in 3.0.7, but none of them are security exploits at least at this time. All software has security holes, and when one is reported over here a new version is released as quickly as possible. They also include patched files for the customers who can no longer get updates via the members area and need to re-new.


                          Your sig means nothing. Do you have a screen cap of that actual post? For all we know you could just be disgruntled for any # of reasons and are saying the stuff to just bad mouth them. Screen caps are your best friend. Just looking at words on a screen that can easily be falsified otherwise means nothing. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. Only you really know. But it doesn't mean any one else cares since we don't know the real situation or whole situation beyond 1 mans word. There are always 2 sides to every story.
                          If you care to read about what happened to him you can do so here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132677

                          I'll be honest with you, I belive it happened, I've seen similar things happen to my friends that own ipb licenses, as for your other points, I don't think it's even worth my time to quote and reply to them cause I'm sure you can cook somethhing up to defend ipb in your next post even if it is false.

                          Like I said before, this user should try both and decide what is best for him. I tried to give him my experance over here as a customer and hopfully someone at ipb will give them their experance. I don't know why you people want to turn this into yet anthor ipb vs. vB thread but you are all hellbent on it apperantly, I'll take my leave and this will be my last reply to this thread. Although if the thread starter asks anymore questions or needs something confirmed I will reply for him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            [QUOTE=Brad.loo]
                            That is worthless imho! As a guest here you can read every forum a customer has access to, this allows you to see how support operates. At ipb these forums are closed up tight.
                            Like I and other VB and IPB members here have stated, yes they do need some improvement in speed. HOWEVER, I have had zero or very minor or few (and many others here have stated the same) problems. VB is closed up tight about when it actually plans on doing any updates or adding any new useful, oft requested features. If you are someone looking at board features, trying to compare boards, trying to see what they have or will have to offer, would you go with the one that feels you don't have a right to know? The one who 7 versions later still has not fixed some common complaints since the boards initial release almost a year ago, and pretty much refuses to let you to know if or when it ever will get fixed? Can you compare IPB 2.1 to VB3 fairly? No. Why? Because Vb feels you do not, even as a paying member, have the right to know what it has in store for its products, the very thing you pay for. But hey, if you like guessing games and doing alot of hoping, then this is perfect for you. So VB is tight lipped to paying members what its future intentions are. IPB has some closed forums to guests. Oh well. I just HOPE (since we don't know what to expect) it can compete with some of IPB 2.1's best features. I can't see why it has to be a guessing game about if each consecutive upgrade or update will contain what the members want/need. Are they protecting the holy grail of VB updates/upgrades or something?


                            Again pointless, we have our own bug tracker here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/bugs.php

                            Yes there are some bugs in 3.0.7, but none of them are security exploits at least at this time. All software has security holes, and when one is reported over here a new version is released as quickly as possible. They also include patched files for the customers who can no longer get updates via the members area and need to re-new.
                            That would be like going to IPB's board and asking to see their bug tracker. So what you just posted was useless and pointless. As for there being no security hole in 3.0.7 thats been found yet. Just wait. It'll most likely come. If a car manufacturer says that their newest car only has a few bugs....but your best friend who is a mechanic says that car actually has tons of bugs and a faulty seatbelt. Who would you believe? Think about it. It would be like asking Ford who has a better safety record. In most all cases, 3rd parties give a more accurate picture.


                            If you care to read about what happened to him you can do so here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132677

                            I'll be honest with you, I belive it happened, I've seen similar things happen to my friends that own ipb licenses, as for your other points, I don't think it's even worth my time to quote and reply to them cause I'm sure you can cook somethhing up to defend ipb in your next post even if it is false.
                            As for his thing with Matt. If you would like, I can forge something similar from VB3, goto IPB and post it in my sig and make posts on fake convos. You can believe everything you see without any more proof. I on the other hand want physical proof. Not something that can be easily forged to garner attention like that. Did it really happen? Who knows. You can't prove it, I can't prove it. Only he (and Matt if it indeed happened) knows. Sorry, but the sympathy thing doesnt fly with me. And trying to defend something you can't prove is useless. You say it happened to a few of your friends. But as always, one side of a story. There are always 2 sides. ALWAYS. And anyone believing only one side, just because its a friend or whatever, is rather naive IMO. All of these complaints about IPB's supposedly poor customer support, and threats or whatever, and not one screen shot. Amazing. You would think SOMEONE would have grabbed at least one. Maybe some of this stuff happened. Maybe it didn't. But until I see a screen snap at least...some of it at least is to be considered slander and disinformation.

                            Like I said before, this user should try both and decide what is best for him. I tried to give him my experance over here as a customer and hopfully someone at ipb will give them their experance.
                            I've stated this before in my posts in this thread. And guess what, I have a lifetime IPB license AND lifetime VB license. And I AM telling him about my experiences with IPB. NONE were bad. EVER. You state IPB's forums are closed so people can't see the poor support or whatever. Thats FARTHEST from the truth and nothing more than disinformational lies. Would you like me to start posting screen snaps of support THREADS here to prove it? (Doubtful) I have yet to see any sort of rude or poor behavior to any of the members there in the forums. And I visit here and there on almost a daily basis.
                            Last edited by whitetigergrowl; Mon 9 May '05, 9:51pm.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Okay seriously white, go troll somewhere else. If you want to stay here, be more edifying and encouraging instead of flaming others...

                              It's more productive.
                              ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
                              Director, WorldSims.org | Gaming Hosting Administrator, SimGames.net, Urban Online Entertainment

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ManagerJosh
                                Okay seriously white, go troll somewhere else. If you want to stay here, be more edifying and encouraging instead of flaming others...

                                It's more productive.
                                Quit playing boss already. When you have power on this board, then I'll listen to your demands. Until then, go play boss elsewhere.

                                I'm not flaming, nor am I trolling. I've been giving suggestions, opinions, and fact and/or proof of my statements. If I'm not allowed to do that here, than how would it make VBs forums any better than how IPB's supposedly are? (Which they aren't btw.) What you just did WAS flame. And you did so with no authorative power. So what's productive to you? Having only one opinion. One side of a story or situation? People making claims they can't seem to back up very well? Is that productive? Should I sit here as a lifetime member and paying customer and praise the holy grail that supposedly is VB and never question them or what they do? Get real. If someone comes here wanting opinions...I'll give them. But when I see others slamming down damn near every other board without giving full facts or feature sets just to try and prop up VB...then theres a problem. If you want the best possible product...you listen to ALL sides. Not just those that praise your work. Because those people sometimes tend to miss the bigger picture.

                                I have a website of over 3,400 (close to 3,500 members). Its been around a little over a year. On my website I have a poll asking which board people prefer. IPB 2 or VB 3. Now keep in mind my board is currently VB3 and is aimed at a specific market. Most of the forums in this market are VB3 and many of my members frequent those other boards. The purpose of the poll was to see if I should keep VB3 or switch to IPB 2. Basically to guage their opinions on both boards. HOWEVER, my poll has shown more favor IPB 2 than VB3. When I posted the IPB 2.1 video links...that # increased. And thats BEFORE IPB 2.1 has even been released into Beta. Why? Simple. The features and abilities to the end user and mods/admins. At least they know whats coming or to expect. And thats created excitement.

                                Many of my mods and members are used to VB3 and have stated such. However they have also stated to me they like IPB 2's and 2.1's upcoming features much more than what VB3 currently has to offer them and are starting to push me to switch. I honestly expected more resistance from them..but instead have not recieved very much. With VB...most have no clue what to expect or whats coming. Could be competitive...or it could be 3.0.7 Reloaded. No one knows. Heck, it could be 4 more updates before anything major is done.

                                Now some may like living in the dark, but I can tell you from experience that on the user end of things, it's the worst thing to do. It would be like releasing the PS3 today and not having the slightest clue what to expect from it. You know its there...but what can it do? Whats the big deal? How can it compare to Xbox 360.

                                I'll be watching to see what more of my members say before making a decision. But honestly, I think they are growing tired of VB's current rate lack of growth in features to them compared to other boards...including free ones. Sure I could hack my board to death. But why waste the time hacking VB3 to death to get features IPB 2 or 2.1 have outta the box, only to have to re-hack a week or 2 later because of a security or bug update. I don't have the time to keep doing it. And many others dont either.

                                And for the 2 of you that think its only me saying this...do a search. You'll find it's alot more!
                                Last edited by whitetigergrowl; Mon 9 May '05, 11:46pm.

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