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  • Think to buy Vbulletin, have a questions.

    Hello,
    We are really thinking to buy and install vbulletin, but need a couple of answers, preferable from vbulletin team. We understand that question are probably general, but we don't need general answers some kind "anything can happend"... so here it is.
    1) We are partially working web-studio and many of our clients using other forums. Basically, we are interested such types of discount we can get if we'll buy licensies one by one, not several in one package.
    2) We had experienced very high server load using phpbb. Too much mysql queries, too many code and etc. As far as your company doesn't allow to test you forum. Please, reply in very direct way - are vbulletin creates less load to mysql and to server itself in comprassion to phpbb, phorum, ikonboard, invision powerboard ? We don't need comprassion with other forums, since now we are near the choice between these forums board.
    3) How secure vbulletin. 160$ is enough expensive, even in comprassion invisiion power board. What if we'll be hacked through your forum? We had seen versions 3.0.0, 3.0.1 and etc. So we guess versions releases too fast to be sure in security of next one.
    4) Terms of use... not regular question. Of course we understand that you do want to sale as many copies as possible, but we want to save a couple a $, more over we have several clients with non-standart situations. So, the question below. Let's guess that we bought one licence.
    4a) We had installed vbulletin on hosting. And we parked two domain names at same place. We mean site1.com and site2.com for example leads to same site. Is it ok?
    4b) The same question as 4a, but site1.com and site2.com have different languages?
    4c) If our site have two different languages and placed at site.com domain. Is it ok to use vbulletin then?
    4d) We bought hosting. Install vbulleten there. Point two different domain names to same place site3.com and site4.com but basically it different sites. Is it ok?
    4e) All the same points as 4a, b, c, d but in addition - different content of forum. Not only different access and languages. But same hosting and totally same place, same files of forum, same DB and etc.
    5) Can we have some kind of moneyback warrantee if your forum will not suits our needs, or whole or part of your advertising campaingh will not be totally correct understanded? We know that in internet there are a lot of "hacked" versions of vbulletin to download, but we don't want try to use them, but in same time, we don't want to buy "cat in black box". Since you don't give any trial... what can you suggest us for not buying vbulletin blindly?
    6) Can vbulletin be friendly to Search Engines? From all that we see on your board - it's not friendly. Same meta tags, same meta description on each page. Title of site in title of page goes earlier than topic name. It's all evil. Do you have any official fixes for this?

    P.S.: We will value response from official team as official response. So please, reply exactly. Not like "I never were hacked, my forum fast and you can use it on two different languages"... but something which we can relay on.

    P.P.S.: According to quote from topic http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78257
    " you need a license for each set of PHP files that you run. " - answer of official vbulletin team.
    We have one more question. Is it true answer? If we do use one set of files, we don't have to take care about how much addresses it's accessable or/and real looks from outside it'll looks like? Languages, appearence and other things?
    Last edited by edogs; Sat 8 Jan '05, 4:04pm.

  • #2
    1. Quantity discounts begin when you purchase three or more licenses.

    2. Sorry, I don't have information regarding competitive software performance. I'll let customers who have used these systems provide a comparison for you.

    3. We take security VERY seriously and when a problem becomes known to us we generally fix it and provide an upgrade or patch within 24 hours.

    4a. Each license is good for one installation of vBulletin, i.e., one set of vB files on one domain with one set of vB database tables. As an example, our support forums are all under one license:

    http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/

    As per the license agreement:

    "vBulletin license grants you the right to run one instance (a single installation) of the Software on one web server and one web site for each license purchased. Each license may power one instance of the Software on one domain. For each installed instance of the Software, a separate license is required. Modifications to the software or database to circumvent the one-license-one-board rule are prohibited."

    You can view the license agreement here:
    http://www.vbulletin.com/order/license_agreement.php

    4b. Same answer as 4a.

    4c. Not sure I understand this one. Please explain.

    4d. Same answer as 4a , but by the sound of it this requires separate licenses.

    4e. This requires separate licenses.

    5. Because the software is downloaded and cannot be rettrieved, we consider all refund requests on a case-by-case basis. There is no money 'guarantee' as such.

    6. vB3 is very search engine friendly. I'm not sure why you think otherwise. Very few search engines your meta tags anymore, and ones like Google and Yahoo can search and index all posts on the forums without requiring anything special.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l....vbulletin.com

    P.P.S. Sorry, I don't undertsand the question. Please explain.
    Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
    Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

    Steve Machol Photography


    Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


    Comment


    • #3
      1) I think a better answer for this one would be "On the purchase of your third license, as long as the previous remain in your account, you qualify for the discounted pricing". Or at least that's the impression I got from eariler...

      4c) If you have only one installation, but have mutliple languages installed, then it is okay. This MUST be done by having it at the SAME url (IE: http://www.site1.com/forums) and have both languages available for your users through control panel. The forum must also not be hacked in such a way so the users who selected language A only sees forum set A, and does not see forum set B; where as users who selected language B only sees forum set B, and does not see for set A.

      5) There IS a trial for vBulletin. You can request a 'day-pass' at http://www.vbulletin.com/admindemo.php which will grant you a one-day-pre-installed copy of Vbulletin which you can play with on Jelsoft's server.

      6) VB3 is VERY search engine friendly. Try type in a specific topic on these forums that are around a week or so old to google. Chances are, you'll find it indexed by google. Very few search engines still rely only on meta tages now days...

      If you have any more questions unanswered, please feel free to post them here or further explain them to Steve.

      Cheers
      Best Regards,
      Andy Huang

      Comment


      • #4
        At first, thank you for very fast answer!
        At second, sorry for reasking and possible misunderstanding, but English is not our native language, so please, be patient:-)
        Originally posted by Steve Machol
        1. Quantity discounts begin when you purchase three or more licenses.
        At one time, or we can buy it one by one? We mean. Let's guess we will buy 1 licence tomorrow, 2nd license week after, 3rd licence month after... will we have discount for 4th license after 3 months after this?
        2. Sorry, I don't have information regarding competitive software performance.
        It's really bad for us:-( This is one from major reason why we are seeking for other forum for us and our clients.
        3. We take security VERY seriously and when a problem becomes known to us we generally fix it and provide an upgrade or patch within 24 hours.
        You mean any major security hole will be fixed in 24 hours?
        Or you'll try to fix it within this time, but not guarantee it?

        4a. Each license is good for one installation of vBulletin, i.e., one set of vB files on one domain with one set of vB database tables.
        4b. Same answer as 4a.
        So, 4a and 4b require one license? Correct?

        4c. Not sure I understand this one. Please explain.
        We have site about dogs. It's multilingual, and totally same content - just translated. On totally same domain name, on same files, on same directories, but different language. Can we create two DB and choice one DB for Russian language and other DB for English language.
        We mean DOGS part in english will sounds Собаки if user select russian language.
        Basically, if your forum would be really multilingual it wouldn't be a question. But since it doesn't have such ability... We do use php-nuke on site, which allow all things to be multilingual, and wish at least to have possibility to emulate multilingual feature.
        4d. Same answer as 4a , but by the sound of it this requires separate licenses.
        Ok. Understand. Will ask it more detailed once we'll came there.
        4e. This requires separate licenses.
        Understand.
        5. Because the software is downloaded and cannot be rettrieved, we consider all refund requests on a case-by-case basis.
        You mean it depends from each situation? Ok. Here is ours. We have phpbb installed with more other 5000 unique visits per day. It creates high load to server (it's not dedicated server). We want to try if vbulletin will creates less load to server on same situation. And if it will, then we'll buy it. If not, then we would prefer to return it.
        5) There IS a trial for vBulletin. You can request a 'day-pass' at http://www.vbulletin.com/admindemo.php which will grant you a one-day-pre-installed copy of Vbulletin which you can play with on Jelsoft's server.
        It's useless. We can see the functionality there, but we can't test it if it suits our needs.
        6. vB3 is very search engine friendly.
        6) VB3 is VERY search engine friendly.
        Hm. Seems to be misunderstanding here.
        We point in first post to things which makes vbulletin less friendly. Can you point us any thing which makes vbulletin very friendly?
        Google indexes any and full content of all pages, it's not stupid thing. So of course it'll index all pages. So "friendly" means - who will have higher weight, not just "indexed".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by edogs
          At one time, or we can buy it one by one? We mean. Let's guess we will buy 1 licence tomorrow, 2nd license week after, 3rd licence month after... will we have discount for 4th license after 3 months after this?
          The discounts will begin with the purchase of the thrid license and every subsequent license - as long as the licenses are kept under the same account.

          Originally posted by edogs
          You mean any major security hole will be fixed in 24 hours? Or you'll try to fix it within this time, but not guarantee it?
          I'm telling you what we've done from experience. Obviously I'm not going to guarantee that every security hole can be fixed in 24 hours. That would be irresponsible.

          Originally posted by edogs
          So, 4a and 4b require one license? Correct?
          If they meet the criteria in the license agreement, yes.

          Originally posted by edogs
          We have site about dogs. It's multilingual, and totally same content - just translated. On totally same domain name, on same files, on same directories, but different language. Can we create two DB and choice one DB for Russian language and other DB for English language.
          Yes you can. This will require separate license, and custom coding which we don't officially support.

          Originally posted by edogs
          You mean it depends from each situation? Ok. Here is ours. We have phpbb installed with more other 5000 unique visits per day. It creates high load to server (it's not dedicated server). We want to try if vbulletin will creates less load to server on same situation. And if it will, then we'll buy it. If not, then we would prefer to return it.
          I cannot guarantee you a refund. All I can tell you is that we will be very fair.
          Originally posted by edogs
          We point in first post to things which makes vbulletin less friendly. Can you point us any thing which makes vbulletin very friendly?
          Google indexes any and full content of all pages, it's not stupid thing. So of course it'll index all pages. So "friendly" means - who will have higher weight, not just "indexed".
          Sorry, I fail to understand your point about vB not being search-engine friendly nor what you think would make it more so. However if you think it's not, then you've already made up your mind about this. You probably understand this issue better than I do.
          Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
          Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

          Steve Machol Photography


          Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


          Comment


          • #6
            2) Depending on who you talk to, you'll get different stories on how much server resources the various forum software packages eat up. Some will say phpBB, others will say vB, and more will say IPB. It depends on how modified the board is and the server it's on. The server my mboard is pretty robust and never noticed any slowdown.
            Kim

            Comment


            • #7
              edogs,

              When was the last time you compared the price of Invision to vBulletin?

              You will find for an owned licence Invision cost $25 MORE.

              Comment


              • #8
                And that could change tomorrow way IPB changes their policies all the time. vB been steady since Fred Flinstone bought a license with 160 pebbles...

                Originally posted by poolking
                edogs,

                When was the last time you compared the price of Invision to vBulletin?

                You will find for an owned licence Invision cost $25 MORE.
                Kim

                Comment


                • #9
                  Now the main point for us that we have to spend 160$ blindly.
                  Without any chance to know if it suits our needs
                  Without any guaranteed of moneyback if it will not suits our needs.
                  And creators of vbulletin even doesn't know how fast their forum is.

                  Huh, we never expect such things on paid forums:-(
                  We thought that answers will improve our decision to buy vbulletin, but all we can see now is the reply of support "we don't know how our forum are fast, we don't know about sense of metas, we don't know if we'll return the money if forum will not suits your needs, we can't allow you to test it... but all you can do is to buy license and pray":-) "Pay us.. but we unsure in anyting" :-)

                  Hell, guys, you definitely needs good sales manager:-) Wanna one? We don't know how fast is he working and if he'll suits your needs, and we don't guareantee result, but it will cost you 160$ per hour:-) Would you agree?:-)

                  You just pushing us to download hacked version of vbulletin and test it to be sure that this satisfy our needs instead asking the questions at support forum... very strange.
                  Last edited by edogs; Sun 9 Jan '05, 2:21pm.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No one mentioned anywhere by means of hinting or suggesting for anyone to use the hacked version of vb. In fact, Jelsoft does not support any hacked / code modified forum script.
                    Best Regards,
                    Andy Huang

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've done my best to honsetly and accurately answer your questions. I could have made something up, but that's not the way we do things. Sorry it wasn't enough and best of luck.
                      Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
                      Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

                      Steve Machol Photography


                      Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You can always try the Leased version and if you like it, you can upgrade it to a Owned license within 30 days or do a test drive on the Admin demo as someone else suggested.

                        Here is a link to a thread that has a couple of scripts to see if your server can run it without any issues...

                        Link: Testing Your Server
                        Kim

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Steve Machol
                          I've done my best to honsetly and accurately answer your questions. I could have made something up, but that's not the way we do things. Sorry it wasn't enough and best of luck.
                          Answers were good and quick. You really do all you can! No problem with it:-)
                          It's just current vbulletin policy, there even you, support manager doesn't know if vbulletin fast or not and etc:-)

                          But anyway, we found decision. We'll ask our friends who have vbulletin installed for one day allow us to use it on their place. We will import there phpbb DB and see how fast it works. If all will be great, then we'll come back and pay a couple of backs.
                          The server of our friends will go down for couple of days because of it, and they got no payment from it.
                          So you can compare it with politics of vbulletin which didn't allow us to get this software for testing or moneyback or something like this, though it would be no harm to them.
                          We really think you should kick someone to change your politics about it, that the shame to build such relationships of company with users? In same time having kind and quick support:-)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If they let people download it free for evaluation, there would be an increase in piracy...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wiltuk
                              If they let people download it free for evaluation, there would be an increase in piracy...
                              It took 15 seconds for us to find piracy latest version of vbulletin in google. We can't image how in such case piracy can be increased.
                              But the official allowence for honest peoples to test and see possible advantages of vbulletin would allow good guys to buy vbulletin if they have doubts.

                              Comment

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