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  • #16
    Originally posted by ArboristSite View Post
    Seriously?
    Of course we investigated. One of my techs is very well known in this industry. He has worked for several high end server companies and is very good at what he does. It does make a big difference whether you think so or not. Been at the fix for over a week. All we did was the upgrade and the recommended optimization. It really has zero advantages that I have found either regardless of the slowness. I gave up and ordered a new server last night. Been upgrading for 10 years never an issue. I have started with v1
    Wow.. if I was you I would have converted to IPB or XF.

    This is why I haven't touched vB4. I just don't trust it.
    One suggestion for the two of you, email the vb guys and discuss it with them behind closed doors.
    All i can see and read is nothing but negative stuff about it.
    As a current user of vb4 i love it i don't think the software is crap.
    Oh and ff you have used vb4 as i know you from a forum that i am on.
    Aussiefootyforums

    New Site New forum
    Come and talk sports all day long


    Comment


    • #17
      I am not a fan of VB4 but for all it's flaws, it will not cause what you experienced. Now a moot point since you already ordered a new server, but there's something else causing the load. I would investigate further before spending money on a new server.
      Owner: Oracle Forums - General Discussion Forums.

      Comment


      • #18
        I never saw the previous site, but am curious about the number of ads in the header. Were they always there?

        It seems your users are complaining about a perceived changed in the look of the site. If that's the case, try developing an alternative theme with colors similar to the previous site's look. I've found that helps soften the blow for users who struggle with change. Your site does seem to load well, but can appreciate that perception is everything.

        What specifically will a server upgrade provide that your current environment cannot support?
        Shawn

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
          my 4.0.8 site is actually faster than 3.8.6 was
          That was my experience too, even under shared hosting.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by trilogy33 View Post
            That was my experience too, even under shared hosting.
            Strangely Google Webmaster Tools disagrees with me and reports a marked slowdown after the upgrade. But their figures (even pre upgrade) don't reflect my own experience in loading uncached pages on my site.

            Google reckons the average page load time is between 5 and 8 seconds...that simply isn't the case.
            MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

            TalkNewsUK - My vBulletin 5.6.4 Demo
            AdminAmmo - My Cloud Demo

            Comment


            • #21
              HAH. You haven't even come close to doing all of the optimizations.

              1. No CDN
              2. No use of Expires headers
              3. No Gzip
              4. Reduce the DOM elements

              Grade F on Reduce the number of DOM elements

              There are 2200 DOM elements on the page

              5. It's apparent that you've tried little/nothing from this article.
              http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=237025

              Originally posted by ArboristSite View Post
              As a person that owns at least 5 vbulletin forums I decided to upgrade my largest forum to v4. I can honestly say it was the worst decision I have made. I hear how fast it is...BS. Same server and I am now maxing it out and I wasn't coming close to do that with 3.8. I have done ALL the optimizations recommended. Still sucks. I read a lot of the forum posts and it seems that nobody can believe that this can happen. They are fairly smug about it actually. I can tell you that it does happen!! I can tell you that this product is now going to cost me close to $250 more a month in server fees. I am so irritated right now and if you are thinking about 4.0 DON'T do it. I would however recommend you buy 3.8 as that software is great.
              As you can see I have pretty good stats.
              http://www.arboristsite.com/stats/
              I feel pretty screwed over by "upgrading". If I get a chance to switch products that will work with integration of 4.0 I will.
              Just a review of it, take it how you want, just beware, beware, beware!!
              So very disappointed.

              Code:
              Overall Grade: C  (Ruleset applied: YSlow(V2))[B]C[/B]Make fewer HTTP requests
              
              This page has 7 external Javascript scripts.  Try combining them into one.
              This page has 3 external stylesheets.  Try combining them into one.
              This page has 7 external background images.  Try combining them with CSS sprites.
              [B]F[/B]  Use a Content Delivery Network (CDN)
              
              There are 79 static components that are not on CDN. You can specify CDN hostnames in your preferences. See [URL="http://developer.yahoo.com/yslow/faq.html"]YSlow FAQ[/URL] for details.
              
              [LIST][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/css.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/css.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/css.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://ajax.googleapis.com/.../yuiloader-dom-event.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://ajax.googleapis.com/.../connection-min.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin-core.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/mobiquo/tapatalkdetect.js[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin_md5.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin_read_marker.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../headerbgmid.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../selected-tab-gradient-with-top-alpha.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/arrow.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../collapse_40b_collapsed.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/gradients/grey-up.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/vbclone/repeat3.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../gradient-greytowhite.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/mainlogo.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/pan/adview.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291668673.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928531.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928553.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928579.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928618.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928662.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928703.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928754.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928773.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928815.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928847.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291677777.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291664520.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291928991.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929022.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929059.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929138.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929164.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929185.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929214.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929246.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929277.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929573.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929590.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929625.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929674.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929732.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1295286044.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/navbit-home.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/buttons/collapse_40b.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../forum_new-48.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../lastpost-right.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../forum_old-48.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Cook.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/TWsmall.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon5.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Sherrill.GIF[/url][*][url]http://www.treecarebids.com/images/tcbvblogo.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/bailey.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/morbark1.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/BRASsm.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon14.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/ArbortechSM.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Labonville.GIF[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/saveedge.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Treestuff.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Wesspur.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/ProChainsawSM.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon2.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/CaliTree_180.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/jonsoredsm1.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon12.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/users_online.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/birthday.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/im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              [B]A[/B]  Avoid empty src or href
              
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              There are 74 static components without a far-future expiration date.
              [LIST][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin-core.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/mobiquo/tapatalkdetect.js[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin_md5.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin_read_marker.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../headerbgmid.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../selected-tab-gradient-with-top-alpha.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/arrow.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../collapse_40b_collapsed.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/gradients/grey-up.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/vbclone/repeat3.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../gradient-greytowhite.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/mainlogo.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/pan/adview.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291668673.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928531.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928553.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928579.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928618.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928662.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928703.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928754.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928773.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928815.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/large_ads/1291928847.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291677777.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291664520.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291928991.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929022.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929059.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929138.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929164.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929185.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929214.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929246.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929277.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929573.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929590.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929625.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929674.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1291929732.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/small_ads/1295286044.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/navbit-home.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/buttons/collapse_40b.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../forum_new-48.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../lastpost-right.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../forum_old-48.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Cook.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/TWsmall.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon5.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Sherrill.GIF[/url][*][url]http://www.treecarebids.com/images/tcbvblogo.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/bailey.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/morbark1.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/BRASsm.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon14.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/ArbortechSM.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Labonville.GIF[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/saveedge.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Treestuff.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/Wesspur.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/ProChainsawSM.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon2.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/CaliTree_180.gif[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/banners/jonsoredsm1.jpg[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon12.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/users_online.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/birthday.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/forum_stats.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/images/misc/legend.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../forum_new-16.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../forum_old-16.png[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../category-16.png[/url][*][url]http://w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              [B]F[/B]  Compress components with gzip
              
              There are 6 plain text components that should be sent compressed
              [LIST][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/css.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/css.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin-core.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/mobiquo/tapatalkdetect.js[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin_md5.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin_read_marker.js?[/url]...[/LIST]
              
              [B]A[/B]  Put CSS at top
              
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              There are 4 JavaScript scripts found in the head of the document
              [LIST][*][url]http://ajax.googleapis.com/.../yuiloader-dom-event.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://ajax.googleapis.com/.../connection-min.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../vbulletin-core.js?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/mobiquo/tapatalkdetect.js[/url][/LIST]
              
              [B]B[/B]  Avoid CSS expressions
              
              There are a total of 1 expression
              [LIST][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/css.php?[/url]...[/LIST]
              
              [B]n/a  [/B]Make JavaScript and CSS external
              
              Only consider this if your property is a common user home page.
              [LIST][*]There are a total of 15 inline scripts[/LIST]
              
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              There are 2 components that can be minified
              [LIST][*]Inline script tag #9[*]Inline script tag #13[/LIST]
              
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              [LIST][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/pan/adview.php?[/url]...[*][url]http://www.treecarebids.com/images/tcbvblogo.jpg[/url][/LIST]
              
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              There are 2206 DOM elements on the page
              [B]A[/B]  Avoid HTTP 404 (Not Found) error
              
              There is 1 request that is 404 Not Found
              [LIST][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../headerbgmid.png[/url][/LIST]
              
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              [LIST][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/mobiquo/tapatalkdetect.js[/url][*][url]http://www.arboristsite.com/.../forum_new-48.png[/url][/LIST]
              
              [B]A[/B]  Avoid AlphaImageLoader filter
              
              [B]A[/B]  Do not scale images in HTML
              
              [B]A[/B]  Make favicon small and cacheable
              Last edited by scylla22; Thu 20 Jan '11, 6:40am.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                between 5 and 8 seconds
                Jeeeez! That's a week!

                Comment


                • #23
                  I really doubt he has, this speaks for itself lol

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Originally posted by ArboristSite View Post
                  Seriously?
                  Of course we investigated. One of my techs is very well known in this industry. He has worked for several high end server companies and is very good at what he does. It does make a big difference whether you think so or not. Been at the fix for over a week. All we did was the upgrade and the recommended optimization. It really has zero advantages that I have found either regardless of the slowness. I gave up and ordered a new server last night. Been upgrading for 10 years never an issue. I have started with v1

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Zoinks!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Vb4 still have bugs and stuff to polish and is more work than with 3.8 whom I forgot last time I had a bug.
                      4... is still making so many changes to code that mods working before an upgrade stop after. Too much work that is why I have install less mods and I do upgrades after each 3 numbers.
                      Still is a good choice as 3.8 is reaching end of life (thow you can use it for a lifetime) and for me is doing a great job on my biggest community.
                      So for a big community expect a lot of work to keep it flowing comparing with 3.8. For a small forum at beginning is a better choice even if more to work.
                      They did launch the script in beta saying is RC or even gold. Should be more honest about it and keep it beta (best deal to buy now) and after 4.1 to make it gold ... But investors pressure is felt even between the lines of code.

                      Keep up the good work and please make it simpler to navigate in different menus. FB and other social network beat the c.. out of forums (luckily still not direct competitor).
                      You adapt or you dissapear.
                      So act smart when you choze what script to use. This is usually the biggest important decision you make about a site (aside of name and target).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ArboristSite View Post
                        Seriously?
                        Of course we investigated. One of my techs is very well known in this industry. He has worked for several high end server companies and is very good at what he does. It does make a big difference whether you think so or not. Been at the fix for over a week. All we did was the upgrade and the recommended optimization. It really has zero advantages that I have found either regardless of the slowness. I gave up and ordered a new server last night. Been upgrading for 10 years never an issue. I have started with v1
                        You're not alone, I to noticed a difference in load times between 3.8 and 4.0.8 on identical sites
                        My medium skinned/plugined 3.8 installation was quicker than a default 4.0.8, with imported data.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I think your pro who's widely known in the field is lying to you. Download and install Firebug and yslow. You'll see for yourself.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by bstillman View Post
                            I think your pro who's widely known in the field is lying to you. Download and install Firebug and yslow. You'll see for yourself.
                            Threads like these make me laugh.
                            There are obviously things that the OP or OP's (tech) can do to improve performance, it's been pointed out a few times in this thread.
                            Just swallow your pride and check out the suggestions, it might be cheaper than buying a whole new server... but than again, I'd think your almighty tech would of thought about a few of these as well..
                            -- Web Developer for hire
                            ---Online Marketing Tools and Articles

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Amazing Info, I was going to upgrade to 4.2, But now after trying hard so many times, Im kinda giving up, because something always comes in my way! I rather take the chance to start over. But an upgrade to from 3.8 to 4.2 is not an option for my anymore AND THANK YOU FOR THE INFO
                              Check some of my work on vBulletin.org by CLICKING HERE!
                              I dedicate my work and passion to those who have helped me and made me become the person I am today! From Coders, Designers to amazing Websites and Forums who always been there for me! Forever Greatfull!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChiNa-Man View Post
                                Amazing Info, I was going to upgrade to 4.2, But now after trying hard so many times, Im kinda giving up, because something always comes in my way! I rather take the chance to start over. But an upgrade to from 3.8 to 4.2 is not an option for my anymore AND THANK YOU FOR THE INFO
                                You do realize this thread is 18 months old, right? Started in January 2011. A LOT has changed (improved) since then. Basing upgrade decisions on this thread is a bit foolish, really.
                                ~ Life isn't always fair, but you can be. ~

                                Comment

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