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  • JPnyc
    replied
    Well they don't actually make any changes to the database. The only plug-ins we have are of the variety that either funnel users to a particular user group upon joining, based on some criteria that we set, or they are simple PHP declarations for the purpose of placing adverts within templates. However there were no adverts or changes of any kind in the style named "teststyle". So there should have been no changes to the database at all.

    We will respond on Monday. Forgive me but after having created so many threads with issues here and so seldom finding a resolution to the problem, I have become a little conditioned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Machol
    replied
    If you have further issues, then you need to respond to that ticket. We are not mind readers.

    Also disabling plugins without removing their files and all the changes they made to the database is not the same as having this problem with the default vB.

    Leave a comment:


  • JPnyc
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve Machol View Post
    *sigh*

    There was an 'honest' effort. My last question to you in that ticket was this:



    You replied:


    We never hear anything back after that. You also could not provide he FTP access so we could investigate this further. There is a limit to what we can do.
    We were told to reference the thread, the one I created on the forum. In that thread I clearly stated more than once I have tested this issue with a style/templates that have absolutely no modifications whatsoever, not even to CSS attributes, and I tested it with the plug-in system disabled. I instructed the person who opened the ticket to further stress this point.
    Last edited by JPnyc; Sun 27th Jul '08, 1:24pm. Reason: typing

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Machol
    replied
    *sigh*

    There was an 'honest' effort. My last question to you in that ticket was this:

    Are you still having this problem? If so, it is not possible to get that error with the original vB files, templates and no add-ons. If you are getting this error then it's from a modification you installed.
    You replied:

    We will check the issue again after we upgrade our next forum and see if it's specific to this installation.
    We never hear anything back after that. You also could not provide he FTP access so we could investigate this further. There is a limit to what we can do.

    Leave a comment:


  • JPnyc
    replied
    Originally posted by Dilly View Post
    Uh, what were you expecting? What else should they say?
    I expect an honest effort to find the problem, not another attempt at acquitting the software of responsibility. I've worked support myself. I supported extremely complicated business software, which also had user scripting capability, and I had to go as far as debugging their scripts on a regular basis. If I couldn't find the problem (which most of the time I could), we got the developers in. That is support.

    If you like, conduct a little experiment here. Go to my profile page, statistics tab, and click find all threads by. Just run through some and see how many were actually resolved, and not by me finding the answer myself.
    Last edited by JPnyc; Sun 27th Jul '08, 1:19pm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dilly
    replied
    Uh, what were you expecting? What else should they say?

    Leave a comment:


  • JPnyc
    replied
    perfect example here. we even opened a ticket through support, gave the vBulletin representative administrator account access, he poked around for a little while and the determination was "it is impossible to achieve this result simply with the vBulletin files, so it must be something you added".

    Thanks, we knew that. Meanwhile we created a new style, completely unaltered, and disabled the plug-in system, and the problem still occurs. Gentleman that's not support, its auto exoneration. The primary concern seems to be proving that the software isn't responsible, rather than trying to resolve the issue. We already know the software isn't responsible. If it were garbage software we wouldn't use it.

    VBulletin is far and away the best forum software out there. The most powerful, the most sophisticated, the most well-designed and with the best feature set, but if you should run into trouble, boxer shorts give better support.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michelle
    replied
    What I would like in such cases would be something as simple as "It could be that, check it out". I can understand this wouldn't be of use to the average vBulletin admin, but for someone that uses php, it could be a time-saver. I usually head off to vB support because I think they know the code better than I will ever. I don't want them to try to debug the issue for me, just try to point me to the correct direction, even if its a wrong guess.
    Perhaps it would be useful to have a field in the member's area called something along the lines of "technical experience" (possible levels could be: no idea | some html | just html & css | html, css and some php & javascript | html,css and good php & javascript | guru level) and be treated accordingly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zachery
    replied
    We can't ever be certain, thats the problem. Chances are at one point or another we've run into issues caused by all addons.

    Leave a comment:


  • jcerious
    replied
    That sounds reasonable actually.

    The only thing I would ask is if they KNOW that a certain plugin probably doesn't cause the problem that they would let us skip that step for the moment and see if it's something else. Then go back to that step if necessary.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    For large boards that cannot remove addon features for troubleshooting, we recommend running a duplicate in a directory called testvb on the same server using a copy of the database (though it doesn't have to be exactly up to date) for testing purposes. This copy should have exactly the same addons and modifications and styles installed. It should be an exact duplicate of your live production forum's code and styling.

    With such a test installation, it will be possible to troubleshoot, disable addons if necessary and test changes before you go live. There are over 5,000 addons and hundreds of styles available at vBulletin.org and other locations. Even if we know about particular addons, the combinations are overwhelming. We cannot be expected to know the interactions between each and every combination. Add in server configurations and custom edits by the site owners and you have almost infinite possibilities. By stripping an installation down to the basic installation in three distinct steps, we can determine where the issue is caused and by what aspect of your development.

    Many times it could be a server configuration issue which only exists on your server however when there is extra code involved that can be very hard to pinpoint and if the developers need to get involved in fixing an obscure bug, there is a lot of time wasted if they have to look through plugin code as well.

    So if all files are uploaded correctly and match, then we ask that you check plugins. If temporarily disabling them resolves the issue then you can be assured that a plugin is causing the conflict. You can then re-enable them and test each one individually by disabling and enabling them through the list.

    If disabling plugins don't resolve the issue then it can be a javascript conflict, bad HTML structure, incorrrect logic in a conditional or something else in a template. A default style should revert all issues with templates. Comparing your template with a default one can help you find the issue in the custom coding.

    If you test all new modifications, template edits and addons on a development/test installation before going live, at no time will your end-users be inconvenienced by disabling plugins or using a default style. This is the entire point of that allowance within the license agreement. We want our customers to have as little downtime as possible. Aside from hard drive space, a test installation only uses resources when it is accessed so it should not have an adverse impact on your server.

    The only other way for us to try and help resolve your problem is to duplicate your installation on a new server and spend dozens of hours looking for the cause. This increased workload would of course be reflected in the price of the software and support fees would increase. Even with the current policies we have tickets that require 8 or more hours of dedicated work to resolve on occasion.

    Leave a comment:


  • jcerious
    replied
    Originally posted by Zachery View Post
    We ask you to make a new style with no parrent, we do not tell you to make it avaible to all of your general users.
    But what about when we're asked to disable everything? That affects the users, no?

    Leave a comment:


  • Zachery
    replied
    We ask you to make a new style with no parrent, we do not tell you to make it avaible to all of your general users.

    Leave a comment:


  • JPnyc
    replied
    Originally posted by jcerious View Post
    I think he's saying the harm is that for some period of time people won't see the site the way it has "always been". They'll see a stripped down version of it whether it's for a few seconds or a few minutes. That confuses and discombobulates people and that's never a good thing.
    We couldn't even do that. We have to shut the site down, we're a major Internet publisher, we can't put up an un-skinned forum for any amount of time. What I could do, since I'm the admin, is create a fresh style which only I can access in order to test. But that's not what we're generally told to do. If the effect is the same, then I could do that. But I couldn't disable any and all plug-ins without taking down the site, since the plug-in system is not style dependent.
    Last edited by JPnyc; Mon 30th Jun '08, 8:12pm.

    Leave a comment:


  • jcerious
    replied
    I think he's saying the harm is that for some period of time people won't see the site the way it has "always been". They'll see a stripped down version of it whether it's for a few seconds or a few minutes. That confuses and discombobulates people and that's never a good thing.

    Leave a comment:

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