vbulletin.org

[tgreer]

I would like to ask you to review the operation of www.vbulletin.org. I think it represents a huge black eye to your organization. You have an outstanding product, with which I'm very well pleased, but vbulletin.org is tarnishing your reputation.

As a professional developer, one of the most attractive features of vBulletin is the ability to code my own extensions via the plugin mechanism. However, to do so effectively requires an in-depth knowledge of the vBulletin source code. What is needed is a community to discuss vBulletin programming. That is the ostensible purpose of www.vbulletin.org, is it not? The vbulletin.com official site links to .org for "vBulletin Customization". One would expect to find a professional development community there. The truth is far different.

What you have is an amateur VB hacking club. The community is dominated by amateur "coders" with a "1337" mentality, who compete with each to have the most "installs", and who hold their technical discussions in a private forum you can only access if you too "release a hack".

Moreover, the moderation staff acts like they are a bunch of teenagers you recruited at the local skateboard park. Instead of moderating the site, they hijack threads, filling them with inane chatter, they get into personal arguments with members, and they give the site an amateur, sarcastic tone.

I purchased vBulletin solely on the recommendation of a respected colleague. I didn't know about vbulletin.org until after the purchase. Had I to do things over, and had explored vbulletin.org first, I doubt I would be a customer.

I think it's time for drastic action. I suggest the follow radical changes:

• Fire the moderators. Start over with professionals - actual JelSoft employees. Make it clear that the staff is there to moderate the site and respond to suggestions/complaints, not to indulge in petty arguments and nonsense chitchat.
• Open up the coding discussions. When all the experienced coders carry on their business behind closed doors, the very reason for the site is undermined.
• Re-organize the site so that styles & graphics get equal billing as plugin/PHP development.

In fact, it might be better to move all the "hack install/download" stuff to a completely different site altogether. That way people can go one place to download a hack and get support for it, and leave vbulletin.org as what it should be: a professional vBulletin customization discussion community.

Disclaimer: I know there are very good programmers there, true professionals who work hard to release quality plugins and provide good support. I also know that not all the staff should be characterized as I've done above. You've got some good people who care about the site and work hard to make it run well. However, in both cases, the contributions of such individuals is lost in the noise.

[Kier]

Thanks for your feedback. We are aware of the problems at vBulletin.org and are working to make it a better place for our customers to visit.

[Rob B]

What I would like to see at vB.Org is specialist support staff like there are here. For something owned my Jelsoft, and one of the main features of the vBulletin product it is rather too volunteer-orientated for me.

The vBulletin staff here point us in the direction of vB.Org for support with customizing our forums, and the number of ignored threads at vB.Org and un-filled support requests isn't really on. I don't like asking for support there because too many of my querys don't get answered.

I would also like to see the Modifications pre-moderated. There are too many buggy mods submitted that waste peoples time and I think it would be better if there were people there who reviewed the mods before approving them.

It's good to see that Jelsoft are reviewing the situation.

[Neal-UK]

Got to agree slightly, i'm now stuck with a mod that members hated and meant I had to change some of the code in files and now the author has been "removed" and not willing to let me have the code to unistall it.

I can't revert my files as I have no idea what files I changed plus I have many other mods on there too.

[Fusion]

Got to agree slightly, i'm now stuck with a mod that members hated and meant I had to change some of the code in files and now the author has been banned and not willing to let me have the code to unistall it.

I can't revert my files as I have no idea what files I changed plus I have many other mods on there too.

Ouch, that's bad.
I know this isn't the place to discuss policy, but it seems vBulletin.org needs to address cases such as ths to ensure that users are helped should they want to uninstall certain hacks regardless of the status of the author.

[Ace]

Got to agree slightly, i'm now stuck with a mod that members hated and meant I had to change some of the code in files and now the author has been banned and not willing to let me have the code to unistall it.

I can't revert my files as I have no idea what files I changed plus I have many other mods on there too.

Neal, please PM me on vBulletin.org.

I will do my best to help you get the offending hack removed.

[Chousho]

I've been following on this as well. I've browsed through numerous topics and it seems to me that there is just too much drama than for the good of Jelsoft and VB.

While I won't clump everybody together, it would seem that just because people can code these hacks, that they are automatically better than those who aren't as skilled with php. I really did not like the elite vibe I got from a few of them. As well, there are a few mods who I really do not see as being professional at all. While one at least tries, there is one who gives a very immature image to people who visit. The fact that this mod still is in power after continuously getting threads off topic and posting nonsense that contributes nothing really gives a black eye as well.

It's funny, how I see multiple times members told to go to VB.org for support on some issue, and yet they are told by mods and hackers that Vb.org won't help them - it's a VB.com issue. Quite the run around.

I see much potential, but I think it requires some house cleaning as well.

--edit--
Just a thought. I know that the people who read this and are in charge know what is going on, but for the rest of us who only see the actions... it gives us a different perspective than you. Perhaps a perspective that hasn't been looked at from those in the know? It is always in the best interest for a company to know what those outside think of it and it's affiliates.

[Neal-UK]

Neal, please PM me on vBulletin.org.

I will do my best to help you get the offending hack removed.

PM sent on vb.org thanks.

[Neal-UK]

While I won't clump everybody together, it would seem that just because people can code these hacks, that they are automatically better than those who aren't as skilled with php. I really did not like the elite vibe I got from a few of them. As well, there are a few mods who I really do not see as being professional at all. While one at least tries, there is one who gives a very immature image to people who visit. The fact that this mod still is in power after continuously getting threads off topic and posting nonsense that contributes nothing really gives a black eye as well.

At the end of they day, if it wasn't for people like you or me buying these products, they wouldn't have much to do. Most are decent and enjoy helping others and have a lot of my respect. You always get one who spoils it.

[DanaSoft]

Without the coders, there would be no mods for you to enjoy. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, folks; you can put up a site, but without the community to write and support their mods your selection will diminish greatly. It's the sense of community and the ability to get recgonition for ones work that leads many of the developers to post their work on that site.

I've released many mods in my spare time, what little there is of it. But lately I find myself posting less of my mods simply because the mentality of the leechers is one of 'entitlement'.

The problem at .org is not the Moderators/Admins; it's the leeches who jump up and down and scream that they demand changes while their history is one of being less than contributory.

Not one of those people on that site complaining would put up with any of the stuff they are throwing at the Admins. If I went on any of their sites and behaved like they did, you can bet I would be banned; but somehow its acceptible for them to behave like that on other peoples sites. Again, the sense of entitlement.

IMO, set the rules, enforce them and let the noisemakers find a new place to complain.

It's sad to see the org loose so many talented moderators because of some spoiled rotten little kids.

[sensimilla]

Thats a serious topic. I am member at vborg since long time and I wasnt aware of thigs happening behind courtains... It would be good to have some control over plugins and hacks as some of them could contain backdoors to servers. I always liked the team at vborg and its surprising what I have learned here. Beware waht you are installing than.
The less modified the better.

Thanks tgreer

[DanaSoft]

The issue of backdoors in code is a new one; something one or two coders added and were called on it. Yes, it broke peoples websites and caused alot of concern over privacy, but the issue of a coders conduct should not have led to an outright assault on the admins and moderators of .org.

IMO, the trouble began when the admins tried to accomidate the vocal minority; once that ball started rolling the hassles of being an unpaid volunteer on a site with a bunch of ungrateful members becames a burden - who blames any of them for leaving?

New blood won't solve the problems when the problems are the members.

[TeaTree]

I purchased vBulletin solely on the recommendation of a respected colleague. I didn't know about vbulletin.org until after the purchase. Had I to do things over, and had explored vbulletin.org first, I doubt I would be a customer.

What you're saying doesn't add up-If you didn't know about vbulletin.org when you first bought vBulletin, why wouldn't you have bought vBulletin in the first place? Basically, to you it was a hidden bonus, in your sitation you bought it for the actual product so what you're saying is false

I wasnt aware of thigs happening behind courtains...

It's not exactly happening behind curtains

[amykhar]

Yes, it broke peoples websites and caused alot of concern over privacy, but the issue of a coders conduct should not have led to an outright assault on the admins and moderators of .org.

Woah. Before things get distorted here, no sites were broken by the code. About four coders decided that people who actually installed their code should click the install button and people who uninstalled it should click uninstall. So, they coded their mods to do that step for the users - click the install button.

No sites broke. It was viewed as unethical by many and the rules were adjusted to prevent it or similar code.

[DanaSoft]

Sorry, Amy, but you are wrong. When the authors website went down, it also took down the sites which relied on his callback code.