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  • Mike Sullivan
    replied
    We are looking into the issues. Thank you for your concerns.

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  • tgreer
    replied
    I would ask that you accelerate your timeframe for addressing these issues. According to a PM from Marco, I will no longer be allowed by him to keep "disrupting the board". It was an "official warning". It's clear that not only is the current administration there capable of handling things, they are also incapable of taking any criticism. All I've done is ask that certain issues be addressed, and the result is to be threatened. If I were the only one who felt this way, I could almost understand this response. As it is, it's just further evidence of how completely messed up the situtation there has become.

    Leave a comment:


  • tgreer
    replied
    Fair enough... I was very impressed by your straightforward replies to some of the accusations being thrown about there about Jelsoft "stealing" hacker-code. While I have zero confidence remaining in any of the .org staff, I'm genuinely hopeful that someone here will take ownership of those problems and take specific, concrete steps to correct them, and so will give you the benefit of the doubt in that regard.
    Last edited by tgreer; Tue 20 Jun '06, 7:54am.

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  • Freddie Bingham
    replied
    The chosen steps are still being worked on, that is why there has been no announcements from this side.

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  • tgreer
    replied
    Thank you. I haven't heard any response from Jelsoft, however.

    Could someone from Jelsoft kindly elaborate on Kier's initial response? What specific steps are being taken to address the issues raised here?

    The only response from the .org administration is a generic "TownHall" thread which doesn't address any of the specific issues raised.

    Leave a comment:


  • GearTripper
    replied
    i have to agree with tgreer 100% in each and every sentiment he's made thus far. bravo to you sir for bringing this to light!

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  • ---MAD---
    replied
    They are actually improving day by day.
    Introducing teams etc is making the place a better place however its the members that dont help much. Here you get help easily by forum members, over there you are nearly always ignored if you need help with a hack or code or something not made etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • tgreer
    replied
    When the policies at vb.org are decided in private, by a staff which includes members who publically state views that are anathema to the proper operation of the site, and a "special group" of self-appointed elite members, no other recourse is available. I'm sorry you don't like it, and truth to tell I don't either. I don't enjoy being a "troublemaker".

    Your answers to the "same questions" have evolved to their current form; you've back-pedaled, and modified, and adjusted until you came up with "oh, but that townhall thread/poll about keeping the coder's discussion private isn't the REAL town-hall thread/poll...". Please. If you cannot take the correct action here, then someone at Jelsoft needs to step in.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marco van Herwaarden
    replied
    I don't see it as damage control if i keep giving answers to the same questions asked in different boards and in pm.

    Having that said, i do think it is inappropriate to start a discussion about the policies of vBulletin.org here.

    Leave a comment:


  • tgreer
    replied
    Then what is its purpose? What is the point of that vote? What offical outcome will result from it? If there is to be a second, public townhall thread, will those who voted in the private version be allowed to vote in it, as well? How will the two be reconciled? Will duplicate posts be allowed, between the two threads?

    The fact is, the private thread was going to be the only thread, until I called you out on the issue. You admitted as much. Therefore, to avoid all of the logistical and ethical problems with running two separate polls/threads on a single issue, why not take the logical action of simply moving the CURRENT thread to the public Site Feedback, where it should have been in the first place?

    I appreciate that I've been a thorn in your side about this, and that you're posting here in effort at damage control, but may I suggest that the best damage control is to undo the mistake?

    Leave a comment:


  • Marco van Herwaarden
    replied
    As i had replied to you in PM, the Poll that is running in the Coders forum, is not the announced public thread!

    Leave a comment:


  • tgreer
    replied
    I admit I was very hesitant to post this here. I would agree that in general it's just bad form to make public posts about "private" issues... but in this instance you really left me no choice. I pm'd you asking for a public Town Hall thread, to finally put an end to the pointless public debate. You said one was in the works. One was announced in public... then nothing. When the thread did appear, it appeared in the private coders discussion. There is still no public Town-Hall thread available for a final resolution of the issue.

    (Yes, you caught me in hyperbole regarding the timing. I apologize; it hasn't been two weeks.)

    In our PMs on the issue, you indicated that a public thread may or may not appear, and only after the "current" thread, the one only members of the Coders Discussion can see, was closed.

    This is completely ludicrous, and no amount of back-pedaling can hide the horrendous way this issue was handled: it's like holding an election but only allowing members of one party to vote. Worse, actually: the majority don't even know there IS an election. It's a travesty.

    The only right course of action to take would be to move the current thread, with all posts intact, to the public Site Feedback forum, immediately.

    In any case, I've had detailed discussions with you about this issue already, and am unsatisifed with your responses. While you're free to continue posting in this thread (who am I to stop you?), what I'm really seeking is some official intervention from Jelsoft. The situation at .org is completely out-of-hand, and this latest SNAFU with the "private" Town Hall thread is just the latest best example.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marco van Herwaarden
    replied
    Hello tgreer,

    I like to answer some of the issues you are now posting about:

    Originally posted by tgreer View Post
    One of the most contentious issues at that site is the Private Coders Discussion, and the elitist, isolationist attitude it fosters.
    You already have been voicing that personal opinion in many threads on vbulletin.org. You have been given the chance to make yourself heard, and even have found some people who have the same opinion.

    Originally posted by tgreer View Post
    After much public discussion, Danny.VBT announced publically that there would be a "Town Hall" thread to hear opinions on the subject. That was a positive development, and would have gauged how the community felt about the issue. I would have accepted any outcome.

    However, two weeks later, such a thread appeared
    An announcement was posted ( vB.org Update - 16th June 2006) on the 16th, it is now the 19th, so that is hardly to be called 2 weeks later. In these few days also an almost complete new Admin Team had to get started and work out plans to address all issues we have. If the coders forum will still fit in our future plans and we will still have doubts if it should be public or not a Town Hall thread will be started as Announced by Danny on the 16th.

    Originally posted by tgreer View Post
    , but they put the thread in the private coders discussion forum! So which "community" gets to express their opinion? Only those who are part of the "special group" of elite "coders"!
    The current Poll in the coders forum is not the Town HAll thread that Danny has announced. Also it is not considered a good attitude to post in public what is happening on private forums. I think all boardowners would agree with that.
    Last edited by Marco van Herwaarden; Mon 19 Jun '06, 10:51am.

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  • tgreer
    replied
    I'm sorry for posting this here, but recent developments at .org lead me to believe that none of the issues there can be capably addressed by their current administration.

    One of the most contentious issues at that site is the Private Coders Discussion, and the elitist, isolationist attitude it fosters.

    After much public discussion, Danny.VBT announced publically that there would be a "Town Hall" thread to hear opinions on the subject. That was a positive development, and would have gauged how the community felt about the issue. I would have accepted any outcome.

    However, two weeks later, such a thread appeared, but they put the thread in the private coders discussion forum! So which "community" gets to express their opinion? Only those who are part of the "special group" of elite "coders"!

    Such an action completely undermines the site administration. How can they be trusted to follow through on anything, when they behave that way?

    It also demonstrates that they are catering to that "special group" (quote from MarchH64), rather than the community at large.

    Someone here needs to step in immediately.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bulent Tekcan
    replied
    I'm also post there http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showt...86#post1007686

    What happening in vbulletin.org.I'm a member since 2003,but since 1 month many things change and difficult to find them.

    Old style best for many members.I hate new style No plugins,code modification and other.Everything is one Forum....

    Please see there...

    Leave a comment:

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