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  • #31
    Originally posted by mentalrz View Post
    IF it was not for those "1337" minded vb.org 'ers , then vbulletin prob would not have expanded and got as popular as it was.
    I would have to strongly disagree with that. If vBulletin wasn't so good and popular to begin with those "1337 coders" wouldn't be interested. Don't get me wrong, the coders are great and have truely enhanced the product, but the pompus attitude is something we all can do without....both from coders and non-coders.
    RazorThemes ~ Cutting Edge Designs

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Zachery View Post
      While a good chunk of our customers are intrested in vBulletin.org the majority will never go further than modifying the header image.
      That's tomorrow's task: modifying the header. Then I'm done. Enough for me, and I go with KISS.

      *Steve and Wayne, upon reading this, immediately request tomorrow off*

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by smackLAN View Post
        I would have to strongly disagree with that. If vBulletin wasn't so good and popular to begin with those "1337 coders" wouldn't be interested. Don't get me wrong, the coders are great and have truely enhanced the product, but the pompus attitude is something we all can do without....both from coders and non-coders.
        I'd like to point out that like most, I use a lot of hacks and have never had any problems with the staff on the site or the coders (Just 1 recently). I appreciate their work and their help, and it does help the site / forums to get better and improve registration and user functions.

        However, I purchased vBulletin by just using and testing this vbulletin.com site first. I never heard about vb.org and only found it when another forum user mentioned it.

        With other purchases of vBulletin though, I always add a hack or two before turning the sites on. Some hacks are great and need to be there!
        Last edited by Neal-UK; Sat 10 Jun '06, 10:33am. Reason: Spelling
        [URL="http://www.aviationweb.net/"]Aviation Web[/URL="http://www.aviationweb.net/"]

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        • #34
          I agree. There needs to be a forum for asking questions to people who know vB inside and out, not just some PHP knowledge. Like I just came here today to ask about some modifications I made to the code along with some external files that edit the code. I was just going to ask it here because vb.org members usually just care about their "hacks"..

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          • #35
            I agree with the thread starter. One of my complaints is how immature many of the staff members are. Too often I see useless chatter bloating all the decent threads, and to make it worse, it is often staffers doing this.

            About the moving the releases to another site, I partially agree. It would be nice for a site PURELY to discuss coding with vBulletin... even for a forum. The new Coders Discussion forum is for this, but isn't very active. The fact that they prevent people without coder status (last time I checked) from seeing it also takes away from its usefulness. What about people who havn't released anything?

            snafu, if you have any questions feel free to PM me and I will help you out.

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            • #36
              WOW I had no idea. I have used stuff there but I've never asked for help there. I guess it is because I've been comfortable here from the start!
              I'll have to stick to that...so it sounds! I have also found every one herekind and quick to help, even with my dumb noob questions.

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              • #37
                We really have no problem with answering the questions from our customers. So never feel shy with asking!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by tgreer View Post
                  I would like to ask you to review the operation of www.vbulletin.org. I think it represents a huge black eye to your organization. You have an outstanding product, with which I'm very well pleased, but vbulletin.org is tarnishing your reputation.

                  As a professional developer, one of the most attractive features of vBulletin is the ability to code my own extensions via the plugin mechanism. However, to do so effectively requires an in-depth knowledge of the vBulletin source code. What is needed is a community to discuss vBulletin programming. That is the ostensible purpose of www.vbulletin.org, is it not? The vbulletin.com official site links to .org for "vBulletin Customization". One would expect to find a professional development community there. The truth is far different.

                  What you have is an amateur VB hacking club. The community is dominated by amateur "coders" with a "1337" mentality, who compete with each to have the most "installs", and who hold their technical discussions in a private forum you can only access if you too "release a hack".

                  Moreover, the moderation staff acts like they are a bunch of teenagers you recruited at the local skateboard park. Instead of moderating the site, they hijack threads, filling them with inane chatter, they get into personal arguments with members, and they give the site an amateur, sarcastic tone.

                  I purchased vBulletin solely on the recommendation of a respected colleague. I didn't know about vbulletin.org until after the purchase. Had I to do things over, and had explored vbulletin.org first, I doubt I would be a customer.

                  I think it's time for drastic action. I suggest the follow radical changes:
                  • Fire the moderators. Start over with professionals - actual JelSoft employees. Make it clear that the staff is there to moderate the site and respond to suggestions/complaints, not to indulge in petty arguments and nonsense chitchat.
                  • Open up the coding discussions. When all the experienced coders carry on their business behind closed doors, the very reason for the site is undermined.
                  • Re-organize the site so that styles & graphics get equal billing as plugin/PHP development.

                  In fact, it might be better to move all the "hack install/download" stuff to a completely different site altogether. That way people can go one place to download a hack and get support for it, and leave vbulletin.org as what it should be: a professional vBulletin customization discussion community.

                  Disclaimer: I know there are very good programmers there, true professionals who work hard to release quality plugins and provide good support. I also know that not all the staff should be characterized as I've done above. You've got some good people who care about the site and work hard to make it run well. However, in both cases, the contributions of such individuals is lost in the noise.
                  good post, and I agree...I do not even bother adding hacks, or plugins, anymore because of everything you stated.
                  http://www.ironmagazine.com - blog
                  http://www.ironmagazineforums.com - forums
                  http://www.ironmaglabs.com - supplements

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                  • #39
                    I'm also post there http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showt...86#post1007686

                    What happening in vbulletin.org.I'm a member since 2003,but since 1 month many things change and difficult to find them.

                    Old style best for many members.I hate new style No plugins,code modification and other.Everything is one Forum....

                    Please see there...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'm sorry for posting this here, but recent developments at .org lead me to believe that none of the issues there can be capably addressed by their current administration.

                      One of the most contentious issues at that site is the Private Coders Discussion, and the elitist, isolationist attitude it fosters.

                      After much public discussion, Danny.VBT announced publically that there would be a "Town Hall" thread to hear opinions on the subject. That was a positive development, and would have gauged how the community felt about the issue. I would have accepted any outcome.

                      However, two weeks later, such a thread appeared, but they put the thread in the private coders discussion forum! So which "community" gets to express their opinion? Only those who are part of the "special group" of elite "coders"!

                      Such an action completely undermines the site administration. How can they be trusted to follow through on anything, when they behave that way?

                      It also demonstrates that they are catering to that "special group" (quote from MarchH64), rather than the community at large.

                      Someone here needs to step in immediately.
                      Thomas D. Greer
                      www.tgreer.com/printforum

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hello tgreer,

                        I like to answer some of the issues you are now posting about:

                        Originally posted by tgreer View Post
                        One of the most contentious issues at that site is the Private Coders Discussion, and the elitist, isolationist attitude it fosters.
                        You already have been voicing that personal opinion in many threads on vbulletin.org. You have been given the chance to make yourself heard, and even have found some people who have the same opinion.

                        Originally posted by tgreer View Post
                        After much public discussion, Danny.VBT announced publically that there would be a "Town Hall" thread to hear opinions on the subject. That was a positive development, and would have gauged how the community felt about the issue. I would have accepted any outcome.

                        However, two weeks later, such a thread appeared
                        An announcement was posted ( vB.org Update - 16th June 2006) on the 16th, it is now the 19th, so that is hardly to be called 2 weeks later. In these few days also an almost complete new Admin Team had to get started and work out plans to address all issues we have. If the coders forum will still fit in our future plans and we will still have doubts if it should be public or not a Town Hall thread will be started as Announced by Danny on the 16th.

                        Originally posted by tgreer View Post
                        , but they put the thread in the private coders discussion forum! So which "community" gets to express their opinion? Only those who are part of the "special group" of elite "coders"!
                        The current Poll in the coders forum is not the Town HAll thread that Danny has announced. Also it is not considered a good attitude to post in public what is happening on private forums. I think all boardowners would agree with that.
                        Last edited by Marco van Herwaarden; Mon 19 Jun '06, 10:51am.
                        Want to take your board beyond the standard vBulletin features?
                        Visit the official Member to Member support site for vBulletin Modifications: www.vbulletin.org

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                        • #42
                          I admit I was very hesitant to post this here. I would agree that in general it's just bad form to make public posts about "private" issues... but in this instance you really left me no choice. I pm'd you asking for a public Town Hall thread, to finally put an end to the pointless public debate. You said one was in the works. One was announced in public... then nothing. When the thread did appear, it appeared in the private coders discussion. There is still no public Town-Hall thread available for a final resolution of the issue.

                          (Yes, you caught me in hyperbole regarding the timing. I apologize; it hasn't been two weeks.)

                          In our PMs on the issue, you indicated that a public thread may or may not appear, and only after the "current" thread, the one only members of the Coders Discussion can see, was closed.

                          This is completely ludicrous, and no amount of back-pedaling can hide the horrendous way this issue was handled: it's like holding an election but only allowing members of one party to vote. Worse, actually: the majority don't even know there IS an election. It's a travesty.

                          The only right course of action to take would be to move the current thread, with all posts intact, to the public Site Feedback forum, immediately.

                          In any case, I've had detailed discussions with you about this issue already, and am unsatisifed with your responses. While you're free to continue posting in this thread (who am I to stop you?), what I'm really seeking is some official intervention from Jelsoft. The situation at .org is completely out-of-hand, and this latest SNAFU with the "private" Town Hall thread is just the latest best example.
                          Thomas D. Greer
                          www.tgreer.com/printforum

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            As i had replied to you in PM, the Poll that is running in the Coders forum, is not the announced public thread!
                            Want to take your board beyond the standard vBulletin features?
                            Visit the official Member to Member support site for vBulletin Modifications: www.vbulletin.org

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                            • #44
                              Then what is its purpose? What is the point of that vote? What offical outcome will result from it? If there is to be a second, public townhall thread, will those who voted in the private version be allowed to vote in it, as well? How will the two be reconciled? Will duplicate posts be allowed, between the two threads?

                              The fact is, the private thread was going to be the only thread, until I called you out on the issue. You admitted as much. Therefore, to avoid all of the logistical and ethical problems with running two separate polls/threads on a single issue, why not take the logical action of simply moving the CURRENT thread to the public Site Feedback, where it should have been in the first place?

                              I appreciate that I've been a thorn in your side about this, and that you're posting here in effort at damage control, but may I suggest that the best damage control is to undo the mistake?
                              Thomas D. Greer
                              www.tgreer.com/printforum

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I don't see it as damage control if i keep giving answers to the same questions asked in different boards and in pm.

                                Having that said, i do think it is inappropriate to start a discussion about the policies of vBulletin.org here.
                                Want to take your board beyond the standard vBulletin features?
                                Visit the official Member to Member support site for vBulletin Modifications: www.vbulletin.org

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