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  • i love vb and dont think i'll change it
    but may i ask if there is any other forum script that does not suffer from this problem ? or may out performe vb ?
    i have a forum of 1200 online users with 15 min timeout cookies
    and no mattar what hardware we use it stills wants more !
    thanks

    Comment


    • I'd like to point out that we are also experiencing this issue with around every third post (the forum also sometimes reports duplicate posts just before the error occurs). This only started when we moved from a shared server to a dedicated server.

      We've upped the limit as suggested and it still occurs, which isn't surprising since we didn't experience a massive increase in users the day we changed servers, and, in fact, this happened when there was only one person on the board - me.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Steve Machol View Post
        I'm not denying anything.

        For now it's the only fix available, What you want requires a major rewriting of vBulletin and no matter how much this bothers you, it's not going to happen any time soon.
        Steve, you need to learn some customer relations skills, that comment is insulting to the people who frankly, pay your wages.

        Like the customer you replied to, I've been on about this for ages - the search system needs to be overhauled. Its basically reducing our search function on my site to next to useless, it keeps topping out with 48MB of ram used! If it needs to be overhauled then for gods sake, overhaul the sodding search system. All these nice new funky features are nice - but you're missing a major point of a forum - information storage and retrieval!

        What is the use of a forum if you can't search the sodding thing!?

        Jelsoft is beginning to have the attitude of Microsoft as far as customers is concerned and that's wrong. And don't say up the limit, there is no way on God's* green earth that I'm upping the PHP memory limit above 50Mb.




        * PC Compliant post - Replace with the divine being / object of your choice
        Last edited by MGSteve; Sat 24 Jun '06, 12:30pm.
        Regards

        Steve.
        www.mg-rover.org - Forum for MG and Rover owners everywhere!
        85k users and 4million posts & growing.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MGSteve View Post
          Steve, you need to learn some customer relations skills, that comment is insulting to the people who frankly, pay your wages.
          Hmmm...I really did see anything insulting about my response. Obviously I'm missing something.

          FWIW I've been doing Customer Service for the better part of the last 25 years. Clearly not well enough for your tastes though which is ceetainly the case from time to time. I'll take your comments in the spirit they are intended and will always strive to do better. :
          Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
          Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

          Steve Machol Photography


          Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


          Comment


          • Originally posted by Steve Machol View Post
            no matter how much this bothers you, it's not going to happen any time soon.
            It was that bit Steve, basically saying that you don't care how much of an inconvience it is to us, you don't plan to do anything about it and we should simply keep upping the PHP memory limit.

            That's what's insulting about it, the fact you know its a problem and you don't care about the problems its causing us.

            I'm not trying to turn this thread into an Anti-Jelsoft or Anti-Steve thread, but its the same old attitude every time that just annoys the hell outta me. You know its an issue but you can't be bothered to fix it.
            Regards

            Steve.
            www.mg-rover.org - Forum for MG and Rover owners everywhere!
            85k users and 4million posts & growing.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MGSteve View Post
              It was that bit Steve, basically saying that you don't care how much of an inconvience it is to us, you don't plan to do anything about it and we should simply keep upping the PHP memory limit.
              Fair enough. I was responding to this post:

              Originally posted by bigbadbob0 View Post
              You're missing mine and many of the other posters in this thread's point. Upping the memory isn't a fix, it's a workaround. I upped my setting to 12MB and worked around one isolated problem I was having. Unfortunately, based on the knowledge I've gained reading through other's problem, it appears that this problem is going to continue to grow as my forum grows.

              Step 1 is admitting you have a problem. You're currently still in denial.
              And also his earlier post calling us 'adsurd'. Although I agree I could have worded my response better, I really don't think that this rises to the level of 'insulting'.

              I do my best to try an answer people's questions and provide a solution to their problems. I am not a programmer and cannot rewrite the code even if I wanted to. Some people choose to attack the messenger, and that's par for the course.

              And this is just plain not true:

              Originally posted by MGSteve View Post
              That's what's insulting about it, the fact you know its a problem and you don't care about the problems its causing us.
              I have often and repeatedly tried offered advice to overcome this problem and to suggest that people post any suggested improvements they have to the suggestions forum. Frankly I do care and it would be haappier than anyone alive never to have to answer another post like this again and to not subject myself to further personal attacks. That is my dream.
              Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
              Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

              Steve Machol Photography


              Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


              Comment


              • Steve, its down to the level of grief we get off our users that the search system doesn't work. Of us, the ones of us who actually have paid subscribers, you can appreciate the situation it puts us in. They're paying for a service that they can't use. I'm refuse to increase the limit because if we do it would simply lead to an overloaded server. We can't win.

                I don't think he was calling you Absurd, rather the stance that we get from Jelsoft. It is absurb to think that a script needs 50MB of memory just to do a search of forums. And it is absurd that the stock answer is to increase the limit.

                I apprecaite what you say about your reply though - its not insulting in the words, its the implication of the words that is insulting. But as with everything text based, you loose the 'human' elements of the sentence, the emotion which with the words were intended. Crack that problem and you really will be onto something! lol

                I know how difficult it is being in the firing line in customer support, I've been there, got the bullet ridden T-Shirts to prove it! lol

                At the end of the day Steve, we've got threads on this very problem going back years, its been a long standing issue and one we would like to see fixed. I'm sure a lot of customers would rather have a working search system than a warning or alerts system or some of the other funky new features.

                The next release has to be on improving the performance and memory footprint of vB, its getting huge....

                Please... all I want is a lean, working search system to keep the forum natives happy
                Last edited by MGSteve; Sat 24 Jun '06, 1:52pm.
                Regards

                Steve.
                www.mg-rover.org - Forum for MG and Rover owners everywhere!
                85k users and 4million posts & growing.

                Comment


                • It looks to me like Scott did take this seriously in the bug report:

                  http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1062258

                  We dont know what the issue is, else we'd have fixed it.

                  It depends on the server and OS it runs, the amount of hacks installed and template modifications.

                  On a stock vBulletin it runs within the limit without a problem. We do have intentions to refactor some code in 3.6 though.
                  As he notes, this generally does run fine within the 8Mb limit (including on my own server which has this limit.) Hopefully some of the refinements they've made in 3.6 will help mitigate the problem for servers that are having this issue.

                  Interestingly, this server is set to 23Mb memory limit and shows no signs of being overloaded.

                  I'm far from an expert in these things but it seems to me the problem is far more complicated and difficult to resolve than people would like.
                  Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
                  Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

                  Steve Machol Photography


                  Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


                  Comment


                  • I'm more than happy to send you my data if it will help fix it! I suspect its got something to do with the number of matches found for the keywords...

                    As you can appreciate, doing a search for 'Rover' on my forum (MG and Rover enthusiasts site) with over 1 million posts returns (or rather would) a hell of a lot of matches.

                    Out of interest, I may well try exporting the threads & posts into a phpBB forum and then back again into a blank, fresh VB install and see if the problems persist, at least then we can rule out that comment above, that it works fine on a stock VB....
                    Regards

                    Steve.
                    www.mg-rover.org - Forum for MG and Rover owners everywhere!
                    85k users and 4million posts & growing.

                    Comment


                    • Please feel free to post in the Bug report about this. I'm sure Scott would appreciate any info you can provide to troubleshoot this.
                      Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
                      Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

                      Steve Machol Photography


                      Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


                      Comment


                      • I know that the 32 bit os will use less memory in comparsion to a 64bit OS. Under normal cicumstances 8mb of memory should be fine in most comon areas in a 32bit os and 16-24 would be better in a 64bit os. One of the problems though is that your users are searching for an insanely common word. We don't allow certin words to be searched here, I remember we recently added a very comon word, if the word shows up in 90% of the posts it makes it harder on to find and sort for relivance and then show. You're best bet would be to stop indexing words that will be in almost every post.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                          I know that the 32 bit os will use less memory in comparsion to a 64bit OS. Under normal cicumstances 8mb of memory should be fine in most comon areas in a 32bit os and 16-24 would be better in a 64bit os.
                          Comments like these from developers scare me. Standard integers and character strings on 64-bit machines will take the exact amount of storage they used to plus a constant 32-bits of overhead to store the now 64-bit address. Saying overly general (and stupid?) things like you need to double or triple the memory requirements of an application because of a move to 64-bit are, to put it using the hot word of the moment, absurd.

                          The fact of the matter is that vBulletin is, quite simply, a big huge pile of spaghetti that was cooked too long and now is all stuck together. The code is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. It's no wonder you can't solve bugs like this, you can't make heads or tails of the code. The hole is too deep. There isn't enough steel in the world to build the structure needed to get out of that hole. Seal off the hole and forget about it. Hire a few good software engineers and start over. 6 guys for 6 weeks and you'll have vBulletin 4.0: A modular and scalable software platform built for the future. Perhaps the best part is that if you build it right you won't need to release security patches every few weeks for holes that are downright embarassing.

                          Comment


                          • Perhaps you should post a Bug report so the Devs can look at this officially. And Zach is not a Dev.
                            Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
                            Change CKEditor Colors to Match Style (for 4.1.4 and above)

                            Steve Machol Photography


                            Mankind is the only creature smart enough to know its own history, and dumb enough to ignore it.


                            Comment


                            • I'm not a dev, I'm only commenting on what expiernces I've had with 32bit and 64bit machines and running very large forums which require multiple servers.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bigbadbob0 View Post
                                Comments like these from developers scare me. Standard integers and character strings on 64-bit machines will take the exact amount of storage they used to plus a constant 32-bits of overhead to store the now 64-bit address. Saying overly general (and stupid?) things like you need to double or triple the memory requirements of an application because of a move to 64-bit are, to put it using the hot word of the moment, absurd.

                                The fact of the matter is that vBulletin is, quite simply, a big huge pile of spaghetti that was cooked too long and now is all stuck together. The code is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. It's no wonder you can't solve bugs like this, you can't make heads or tails of the code. The hole is too deep. There isn't enough steel in the world to build the structure needed to get out of that hole. Seal off the hole and forget about it. Hire a few good software engineers and start over. 6 guys for 6 weeks and you'll have vBulletin 4.0: A modular and scalable software platform built for the future. Perhaps the best part is that if you build it right you won't need to release security patches every few weeks for holes that are downright embarassing.

                                tbh, other parts of vBulletin are very well designed, the plugin system for example is brilliant. The search system, however isn't.

                                However, the point about 32 vs 64 - I think its a bit irrelvant. PHP isn't a typed language, so any simple variable takes up the same space anyway. its not as if a C++ program had been compiled, where the space of an Integer would grow from 32bits to 64bits.

                                Anyway, this is going abit off topic.
                                Regards

                                Steve.
                                www.mg-rover.org - Forum for MG and Rover owners everywhere!
                                85k users and 4million posts & growing.

                                Comment

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