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  • #16
    It was a killer feature for me too, but i know I wont use it becasue to me it seems that the whole dev team had been smoking weed for 12 hours straight whilst takin back double whiskies when they made the decision... absolutely stupid, and they know it
    http://www.e-tones.co.uk - The best site on the net for mobile phones.

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    • #17
      My excitement died when I read these posts!

      I was waiting for the upload feature all this time and now I feel disappointed.

      CHMODing a single directory is one of the first things you learn when you work with telnet. Why is it so hard to use such a command?

      It isn't!

      I suggest that you make it an option wether the files are stored internally or in a directory.

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      • #18
        I am not quite sure I understand all of the fuss really, but I am trying to!

        The file upload will create the same exact storage size whether it is in the database, or in a directory! So your hosting plans will still have to have enough space for the attachments.

        As for backing up the database. I always just keep two backups of my forum on my server, and hardly ever download them. It is all done quickly through telnet, and I hardly see why a larger database would be any different.

        I really understand your points to an extent, but just fail to see how it makes much difference either way! It is still the upload feature that works well.

        Sorry, I just don't seem to share the same concerns I guess, but don't lynch me, because I am trying to understand!
        We're Here Forums!
        [email protected]

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        • #19
          I don't see the fuss either. The post attachment feature is pimp ass! (my phrase!)

          The only concern I have has nothing to do with vBulletin. I would be concerned about using all my webspace. But I've got 150MB. I think I'm only using like 20MB right now, half of which is my vB. I think I'm fine.

          The post attachment feature isn't for everyone. The main issue is simply storage space. But even that isn't much of an issue in most cases. So chill fo.

          However, it seems enough people are concerned about this to warrant an added feature. Yooz vB devs may want to make the storage method for uploaded files (whether avatars or post attachments) open for the admin to decide. Probably a vB 2.01 update or something.

          BANANA!
          Last edited by Jake Bunce; Fri 9 Feb '01, 10:06pm.

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          • #20
            The file upload will create the same exact storage size whether it is in the database, or in a directory! So your hosting plans will still have to have enough space for the attachments.

            As for backing up the database. I always just keep two backups of my forum on my server, and hardly ever download them. It is all done quickly through telnet, and I hardly see why a larger database would be any different.
            Well thats you
            Now here is an example why its a problem for some other people.

            I'm on a dedicated server, so I really have no storage problems. I planed to allow big file upload, up to 2 megs since storage is not a problem.
            Even if I have as many space I want on my HDs, i'm still limited in bandwidth. I don't have unlimited bandwidth....

            By putting the file in the database which I download at least twice a week, my bandwidth use will dramatically increase.
            My database is extremely important for me, I don't need to justify why I must safely download it often, and you can see why its a problem for me. It would have been even worse if I were on a shared server with even more restricted bandwidth.

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            • #21
              This is the same for me, i want the upload feautre, but I couldnt give a flyingfig about the actual files, its the forums content that Im after when backing up.
              http://www.e-tones.co.uk - The best site on the net for mobile phones.

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              • #22
                Sometimes people forget that many people use this software in many different ways with many setups. No big deal for me, but someone else may find it a big deal.

                But those of you who are upset about backing up the whole database, I guess you could just backup all the tables EXCEPT for the image table? I dunno, just a thot..

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by dwh
                  But those of you who are upset about backing up the whole database, I guess you could just backup all the tables EXCEPT for the image table? I dunno, just a thot..
                  Yes, perhaps the new Backup Feature in the Control Panel let you chose which tables you want to backup ??

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                  • #24
                    I dont think its that advanced, although a hack could easily be made to do it.
                    http://www.e-tones.co.uk - The best site on the net for mobile phones.

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                    • #25
                      Were-Here:

                      I am very surprised you don't download your database very now and again, i just hope for your sake you don't have a hard disk crash, unless your server is backed up by the server people then i guess you are ok. Not everyone can rely on this.

                      Secondly, virtual hosts sometimes limit the size of their database as opposed to exact webspace. Also, if the files where in a directory they could be easily deleted but i guess if there in a database they could be as well, it is just not as easy to manage.

                      I just can't really see any benefits in having them in a database and can see quite a few not. (no one has mentioned the bandwidth one yet) so i can't see any real sense in the decision.
                      Christopher Padfield
                      Web Based Helpdesk
                      DeskPRO v3.0.3 Released - Download Demo Now!

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                      • #26
                        A few points I would like to make here....

                        1) We backup and download our databases (there are about 8) daily. Two copies are made, first copy is stored to another drive on the server machine and the second is FTPed automatically to Melbourne. If you tarball or zip the file before sending it you will save bandwidth.

                        2) You will have to come up with a download scheme that fits your server plan. If you allow 2 megabyte downloads that will drastically increase your bandwidth especially once your members start exchanging files in large scale. This will effect your bandwidth more than backing up your database and will effect it whether or not the files are in their own directory or a database table.

                        3) Deleting the actual files out of a directory to conserve space is a bad idea. Very bad. This contributes to Link Rot within your forums and after a while your forums will begin to look like swiss cheese. If you offer downloads in the form of a file exchange then the users will be discouraged from using it.

                        4) There have been known security issues about saving the files to a directory via PHP.

                        5) You do allow attachments on a per forum and a per usergroup basis for better control. You can also control the size of attachments and the height and width of images. You can also control the valid extensions for attachments.

                        6) All attachments can be moderated. They can also be controlled by editing the post giving you the ability to remove, exchange or keep the current attachment.

                        7) Storing the attachments in the database allow greater control and management features to be developed within vBulletin instead of relying on FTP or the operating system. Admin's don't always have access to FTP or the command line when there is a problem.

                        8) All attachments are stored in their own table (attachments). You can easily modify backup scripts to ignore this table especially since MySQL conveniently keeps each table in its own file.

                        9) The backup utility in vBulletin gives you several options while backing up. One includes backing up the entire database and another includes being able to do it on a table by table basis.

                        10) You can display images inline (high bandwidth) or as links (lower bandwidth) as you so choose.

                        11) I think you should wait to see what you are getting before you complain about it. It is hard to complain about something that you know little or nothing about. The attachment feature of vBulletin is an enhancement that allows great flexibility in a forum. However if you need something more advanced you may consider looking at: http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Script...nload_Systems/
                        Translations provided by Google.

                        Wayne Luke
                        The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                        vBulletin 5 API

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                        • #27
                          Thanks for that wluke.. i think the attchment feature looks much more promising now..

                          thanks again
                          http://www.e-tones.co.uk - The best site on the net for mobile phones.

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                          • #28
                            I like the option to ignore a table when backup-ing.
                            Wluke, what about the argument that says binaries in the database will slow it ?

                            Is it valid ?

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                            • #29
                              thanks wluke that does answer a lot of the problems, the backup system sure helps a lot if that is how it works.

                              The only remaing problem i see is bandwidth theft from external sites and this is probably the biggest. I don't plan on any file archive but probably limit it to 50kb images. If however people start linking to these images from all over the web instead of putting them on their sites, this is a lot of bandwidth loss. Some protection is essential and it is just so easy via .htaccess.
                              Christopher Padfield
                              Web Based Helpdesk
                              DeskPRO v3.0.3 Released - Download Demo Now!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                7.3.4.2 The BLOB and TEXT Types
                                A BLOB is a binary large object that can hold a variable amount of data. The four BLOB types TINYBLOB, BLOB, MEDIUMBLOB, and LONGBLOB differ only in the maximum length of the values they can hold. See section 7.3.1 Column Type Storage Requirements.

                                The four TEXT types TINYTEXT, TEXT, MEDIUMTEXT, and LONGTEXT correspond to the four BLOB types and have the same maximum lengths and storage requirements. The only difference between BLOB and TEXT types is that sorting and comparison is performed in case-sensitive fashion for BLOB values and case-insensitive fashion for TEXT values. In other words, a TEXT is a case-insensitive BLOB.

                                If you assign a value to a BLOB or TEXT column that exceeds the column type's maximum length, the value is truncated to fit.

                                In most respects, you can regard a TEXT column as a VARCHAR column that can be as big as you like. Similarly, you can regard a BLOB column as a VARCHAR BINARY column. The differences are:

                                You can have indexes on BLOB and TEXT columns with MySQL Version 3.23.2 and newer. Older versions of MySQL did not support this.
                                There is no trailing-space removal for BLOB and TEXT columns when values are stored, as there is for VARCHAR columns.
                                BLOB and TEXT columns cannot have DEFAULT values.
                                MyODBC defines BLOB values as LONGVARBINARY and TEXT values as LONGVARCHAR.

                                Because BLOB and TEXT values may be extremely long, you may run up against some constraints when using them:

                                If you want to use GROUP BY or ORDER BY on a BLOB or TEXT column, you must convert the column value into a fixed-length object. The standard way to do this is with the SUBSTRING function. For example:
                                mysql> select comment from tbl_name,substring(comment,20) as substr
                                ORDER BY substr;

                                If you don't do this, only the first max_sort_length bytes of the column are used when sorting. The default value of max_sort_length is 1024; this value can be changed using the -O option when starting the mysqld server. You can group on an expression involving BLOB or TEXT values by specifying the column position or by using an alias:
                                mysql> select id,substring(blob_col,1,100) from tbl_name
                                GROUP BY 2;
                                mysql> select id,substring(blob_col,1,100) as b from tbl_name
                                GROUP BY b;

                                The maximum size of a BLOB or TEXT object is determined by its type, but the largest value you can actually transmit between the client and server is determined by the amount of available memory and the size of the communications buffers. You can change the message buffer size, but you must do so on both the server and client ends. See section 12.2.3 Tuning Server Parameters.
                                Note that each BLOB or TEXT value is represented internally by a separately allocated object. This is in contrast to all other column types, for which storage is allocated once per column when the table is opened.
                                The above is from the MySQL Manual. According to the manual, the only difference between a BLOB (attachments) and TEXT fields is the way they are sorted. As long as you don't sort or index on the Attachment field, then it will have no more impact on the database's resources than the actual messages of your forums.
                                Translations provided by Google.

                                Wayne Luke
                                The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                                vBulletin 5 API

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