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  • #16
    Originally posted by hornstar6969 View Post
    Which is why I chose not to buy it until it is ready. I knew IB would not fully learn.
    We don't expect customers to buy it until it is ready for them.
    Translations provided by Google.

    Wayne Luke
    The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
    vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
    Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
      We don't expect customers to buy it until it is ready for them.
      Yeah but there was a sale remember. That changes everything.
      Selling my BigBoard GamerzNeeds.net/forums Threads: 193 502, Posts: 1 540 045, Members: 718 566 It is listed here http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showt...3#post18297060

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
        We don't expect customers to buy it until it is ready for them.
        What about new customers who recently enrolled into the vbulletin product?
        Neverthleless, I couldn't care less if the beta hitted even the 50 series with patches, aslong as vbulletin delivers like they are doing right now, I have faith in the product!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Joe D. View Post
          I think dilbert has a lock on this- my entry was for amusement only- staff were not eligible to win.

          NOTE- I have no idea when VB5 Gold will be released- just going off the same information you all have.
          Yay I won!
          Cliff
          PathLabTalk
          Square Wheels Cycling

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          • #20
            Originally posted by hornstar6969
            If I was you, I'd tell Scott to not worry about it. After the way he was treated by IB. But that is just me.
            I was kidding about being excited about winning. At this point I can't ever see moving to vB5. Most of the vB4 features are missing, I can't figure out what's new about vB5 or why I'd want it, Id have less support than I do now if I upgrade, or I'd have to pay for support. I suspect I'll move to another platform when it's time for me to upgrade, but for now vB4 is OK. I think the support / management at vB have completely lost all control of their vision and product. While I don't find it acceptable for customers to be rude to staff, I find it appalling that staff lash back at customers. To me the biggest turn off and cop out for not improving the product is hearing about Jira and if it's not in there, then it won't get fixed - that's fine, then staff should enter it. Next after that is hearing that we don't offer function X, go look over at vb.org, but be warned if you make any changes to the product, you get zilch for support. Many of the current support staff also post mods at vb.org and are more than capable of supporting those people. Take a look at how support staff respond to people over at IPS for example, they actually help people who have modified systems (who doesn't modify the code???) and provide roadmaps to let you know where they are going.
            Anyhow, didn't intend to vB bash again, just saying it's not likely I'll stay anymore. I think the vB debacle is far worse than the vB4 one and yet people are afraid to say anything.
            Cliff
            PathLabTalk
            Square Wheels Cycling

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            • #21
              vB.com cannot really upgrade the main site to vB5 until they have infraction system. What else would they use to ban people? lol
              Speed up your member list page by at least 5x (4.x.x)

              http://nicknameregister.com/files/20...0/ShyGuy82.jpg

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              • #22
                Originally posted by ShyGuy82 View Post
                vB.com cannot really upgrade the main site to vB5 until they have infraction system. What else would they use to ban people? lol
                We very rarely ban people, and if someone does get banned they get numerous warnings before hand. We can still send warnings and still ban in vBulletin 5 though.
                Translations provided by Google.

                Wayne Luke
                The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

                Comment


                • #23
                  It will be like the 3.0.x days again. The infraction system was the best thing for managing the warnings. Before that it was hard to track with having many mods in many sections on a big board. Hopefully it won't be long before it returns.
                  Selling my BigBoard GamerzNeeds.net/forums Threads: 193 502, Posts: 1 540 045, Members: 718 566 It is listed here http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showt...3#post18297060

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by dilbert View Post
                    I was kidding about being excited about winning. At this point I can't ever see moving to vB5. Most of the vB4 features are missing, I can't figure out what's new about vB5 or why I'd want it, Id have less support than I do now if I upgrade, or I'd have to pay for support. I suspect I'll move to another platform when it's time for me to upgrade, but for now vB4 is OK. I think the support / management at vB have completely lost all control of their vision and product. While I don't find it acceptable for customers to be rude to staff, I find it appalling that staff lash back at customers. To me the biggest turn off and cop out for not improving the product is hearing about Jira and if it's not in there, then it won't get fixed - that's fine, then staff should enter it. Next after that is hearing that we don't offer function X, go look over at vb.org, but be warned if you make any changes to the product, you get zilch for support. Many of the current support staff also post mods at vb.org and are more than capable of supporting those people. Take a look at how support staff respond to people over at IPS for example, they actually help people who have modified systems (who doesn't modify the code???) and provide roadmaps to let you know where they are going.
                    Anyhow, didn't intend to vB bash again, just saying it's not likely I'll stay anymore. I think the vB debacle is far worse than the vB4 one and yet people are afraid to say anything.
                    Very well put! Totally agree. Not afraid to voice my opinion anymore than staff isn't afraid to speak their opinions freely lately.
                    Last edited by chris15440; Fri 15th Feb '13, 5:36am.

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                    • #25
                      We have never supported modified code. How could we possibly provide GOOD support for code our team did not write?

                      We do try to point people in the right direction where possible though.

                      There is also a dedicated modification community for modified code support.
                      MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

                      TalkNewsUK - My vBulletin 5.6.1 Demo
                      AdminAmmo - My Cloud Demo

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                        We have never supported modified code. How could we possibly provide GOOD support for code our team did not write?
                        I agree you don't provide the support and that was my criticism. You don't even try. How many vb installations are completely stock? I suspect very few.

                        Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                        We do try to point people in the right direction where possible though.
                        I disagree. A typical response is disable everything and see if that fixes the problem... If it is, well - sorry you're on your own. Another typical response is we don't support modified code...

                        Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                        There is also a dedicated modification community for modified code support.
                        There is little to no support there. If you are able to figure out what mod is causing the issue you might get help. I think this is simply another way of blowing off the customer.
                        Cliff
                        PathLabTalk
                        Square Wheels Cycling

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                          We have never supported modified code. How could we possibly provide GOOD support for code our team did not write?

                          We do try to point people in the right direction where possible though.

                          There is also a dedicated modification community for modified code support.
                          And it has been a complaint since the Jelsoft days as well.

                          I can see both sides of the story.

                          What really annoys me tho is when I say in a support ticket that I have disabled all plugins and uploaded all files and explain my problem the first reply I get is try disabling your plugins and uploading all files. My post was clearly never read and then the 2nd reply seems to always take ages. With an issue you don't want to go around in circles.
                          Selling my BigBoard GamerzNeeds.net/forums Threads: 193 502, Posts: 1 540 045, Members: 718 566 It is listed here http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showt...3#post18297060

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by dilbert View Post
                            I agree you don't provide the support and that was my criticism. You don't even try. How many vb installations are completely stock? I suspect very few.
                            I disagree. A typical response is disable everything and see if that fixes the problem... If it is, well - sorry you're on your own. Another typical response is we don't support modified code...
                            There is little to no support there. If you are able to figure out what mod is causing the issue you might get help. I think this is simply another way of blowing off the customer.
                            I'm going to have to disagree wholeheartedly with all of this.

                            As well as work for vBulletin, I provide support (and have done for years) for a range of Enterprise products, mainly from Microsoft, via one of their Gold Partners.
                            It is completely impossible to even attempt to support user customisations. The official support has to begin and end with the default product.

                            If you want to look into the logistics and costings of providing support for third party modifications for ANY product; you are firstly talking requiring skilled coders / developers to do your support, rather than mere support agents.
                            Then you are looking at the time and effort for these coders to investigate the third party code they probably haven't even seen before, evaluate it, deploy it to a test environment, attempt to replicate the customer's problem, establish what part of the third party code is causing that problem, and then write a fix for that issue. Then it needs to be tested, not just to ensure it fixes the issue, but also that it doesn't break anything else. And if it does break something else, and that something else is another piece of modified code, then the cycle starts again.

                            I can tell you that in my "other" job mentioned above, this type of support can be provided to clients on a "per issue" basis at a cost of £850 + VAT per day. As at today, that's $1,318.99 USD. A typical investigation into a major product failure caused by such third party code would be upwards of two days, unless you get lucky and it's something simple.

                            Whilst accepting vBulletin is overall less complicated than the software in the example above, it does give an indication of the type of work involved.
                            MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

                            TalkNewsUK - My vBulletin 5.6.1 Demo
                            AdminAmmo - My Cloud Demo

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by hornstar6969 View Post
                              And it has been a complaint since the Jelsoft days as well.

                              I can see both sides of the story.

                              What really annoys me tho is when I say in a support ticket that I have disabled all plugins and uploaded all files and explain my problem the first reply I get is try disabling your plugins and uploading all files. My post was clearly never read and then the 2nd reply seems to always take ages. With an issue you don't want to go around in circles.
                              I accept that the query should be read fully first.
                              That said, I have lost count of the number of times over the years that someone says they have disabled all their plugins, and then when you visit the site you can spot dozens of them.
                              MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

                              TalkNewsUK - My vBulletin 5.6.1 Demo
                              AdminAmmo - My Cloud Demo

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by dilbert View Post
                                I agree you don't provide the support and that was my criticism. You don't even try. How many vb installations are completely stock? I suspect very few.

                                The vast majority of our customers never do more than change the logo, if that. While some people are sold on the third party stuff, this isn't really a selling factor to many of our sales.

                                If you wanted us to see support for third party addons directly from us, the base cost of the software would skyrocket, that or we'd be charging per incident as mark suggests.

                                Its not our job to support that code. Now I (and most of us) do our best to work around it.

                                For example if a customer comes to me with a problem, I ask them to disable the plugins, try the default style and language. He says that isn't it, now I go try the same thing. If its a bug in vBulletin we can move forward. If I find out they missed a step and disabling plugins, or the default style/language fixes things, I tell them that.

                                It might not be what you want, but unless you really want to see costs for the software go crazy, then this is the way it has to be.

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