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  • #31
    Originally posted by mickreid View Post
    Yes it's very slow. I've disabled Facebook as well (it was throwing errors anyway).

    I'm on a dedicated box with Xeon 12 cores and 32gb of ram. My vb4 live site is here http://www.not606.com - this is sharing the same resources as the test (with different database) and it's several times faster despite having a lot more Javascript to load with the likes of adverts, Facebook, Google Analytics etc. At the minute my CPU usage for the entire box is hovering around 1% - so the slowness has to be some sort of database architecture (locking?) issue.
    Reason it's slower is if you run both your vb4 and vb5 tests sites through the following services http://gtmetrix.com, http://www.webpagetest.org/ and https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights you will find that your server level settings aren't optimal for leveraging browser cache (mod_expires and mod_headers), keep alives and server compression (mod_deflate) being disabled. These negative performance factors affect both vB4 and vB5 installs of yours but vB5 has greater negative impact i.e. vB5 install has up to 1.3MB extra data to load per page versus 190KB extra for vB4 when compression is disabled on your server.

    These are server level configuration issues but wait for vB5 Beta 28 which will improve this as it has an updated .htaccess level config for mod_expires, mod_headers and mod_deflate which will reduce page size on default fresh vB5 Beta 28 install by as much as 57%
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    • #32
      Originally posted by George L View Post
      Reason it's slower is if you run both your vb4 and vb5 tests sites through the following services http://gtmetrix.com, http://www.webpagetest.org/ and https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights you will find that your server level settings aren't optimal for leveraging browser cache (mod_expires and mod_headers), keep alives and server compression (mod_deflate) being disabled. These negative performance factors affect both vB4 and vB5 installs of yours but vB5 has greater negative impact i.e. vB5 install has up to 1.3MB extra data to load per page versus 190KB extra for vB4 when compression is disabled on your server.

      These are server level configuration issues but wait for vB5 Beta 28 which will improve this as it has an updated .htaccess level config for mod_expires, mod_headers and mod_deflate which will reduce page size on default fresh vB5 Beta 28 install by as much as 57%
      Thanks for the advice. I had a professional Linux expert configure my last server and I recently upgraded and haven't got him in to optimise yet (as throwing a lot of power at it has probably hid inefficiencies) .

      Just so you know the particular slow page that was alluded to earlier was a Forum which had 20 sub forums - I believe there is a bug in beta 26 which means that the higher level forum retrieves posts from all the sub forums beneath it.

      The betas are definitely getting faster though.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by mickreid View Post
        Yes it's very slow. I've disabled Facebook as well (it was throwing errors anyway).

        I'm on a dedicated box with Xeon 12 cores and 32gb of ram. My vb4 live site is here http://www.not606.com - this is sharing the same resources as the test (with different database) and it's several times faster despite having a lot more Javascript to load with the likes of adverts, Facebook, Google Analytics etc. At the minute my CPU usage for the entire box is hovering around 1% - so the slowness has to be some sort of database architecture (locking?) issue.
        What kind of caching are you using? Memcache? APC?

        Do you have templates stored, preparsed, in the file system?

        Are you compressing static content via .htaccess?

        Are your tables innodb or myisam in the database?
        Translations provided by Google.

        Wayne Luke
        The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
        vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
        Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

        Comment


        • #34
          Interesting thread... I'm new to vB and after installing vB5 and running into some issues, I'm now contemplating whether I should switch to vB4. The forum is not live yet so I can still switch now (if that's the best thing to do).

          Issues I've encountered with vB5:

          - the Site Builder seems to be extremely buggy. I can't even manage to change the colors of the existing (default) template.
          - I wasn't able to delete any of the preset forums ("channels") like Blog or Groups
          - the Social Bookmarking Manager throws errors, can't disable the services

          There are a few more - all in all it does look pretty buggy to me at the moment. I'm not criticizing - all software contains bugs and I know this is still in beta - just looking for the best route to take here.

          What would you guys recommend - move to vB4 instead until vB5 is less buggy?

          Comment


          • #35
            If you're looking to take your site live immediately, vB4 is the recommended route at this moment.

            1) We're working on Site Builder issues with styling. Hopefully most will be resolved in the next couple of beta.

            2) Blogs, Groups and Forums are like "Super Channels". If you delete them it will break your site. As such you shouldn't be able to do so. If you don't want people accessing these areas, remove their permissions under Channel Management -> Channel Permissions.

            3) This are is not currently functional.
            Translations provided by Google.

            Wayne Luke
            The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
            vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
            Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

            Comment


            • #36
              Thanks Wayne, vB4 it is then. Looking forward to the next Connect updates!

              Comment


              • #37
                Beta 27 drops entirely the Social Bookmarking Manager.

                vBulletin QA - vBulletin Support French - Lead Project Tools developer

                Next release? Soon(tm)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                  What kind of caching are you using? Memcache? APC?

                  Do you have templates stored, preparsed, in the file system?

                  Are you compressing static content via .htaccess?

                  Are your tables innodb or myisam in the database?
                  I was using Memcache on my last server, but when upgrading my new box had PHP 5.4 installed and I've struggled getting the memcache PHP classes configued so disabled it - I'll get there eventually.

                  On my live vbulletin 4 install I'm storing everything I can in the file system - moved templates to DB while testing VB5 due to issues with upgrading.

                  Not since I moved server, will get there again soon (bandwidth stats are fine at the minute but I need to set the browser to cache static resources such as css, images as well).

                  innodb tables.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mickreid View Post
                    I was using Memcache on my last server, but when upgrading my new box had PHP 5.4 installed and I've struggled getting the memcache PHP classes configued so disabled it - I'll get there eventually.
                    vBulletin 5 is highly reliant on caching for larger sites. The entire architecture is written around the idea that caching will be used as much as possible for large sites. The defaults store this cache in the database which can increase server resources with MySQL, though MySQL has its own caching routines. We've also added a new cache type to store the cache in the file system. If you have fast disks (SSD or 10,000+ RPM) drives, this may speed up your installation. You can enable this in the /core/includes/config.php file.

                    On my live vbulletin 4 install I'm storing everything I can in the file system - moved templates to DB while testing VB5 due to issues with upgrading.
                    Storing templates in the file system is a new feature in vBulletin 5. Was actually only introduced in Beta 24 or 25. Larger sites see as much as a 10% speed improvement over retrieving templates from the database. Previous versions only stored CSS in the file system. This was to try and take advantage of static browser caching. Since the general templates are parsed out to PHP constructs and can get pretty complicated, they can't be cached statically.

                    You can turn this on under Settings -> Options -> Style and Language Options. By default these templates will be stored in /core/cache/template and numbered per their template ID.


                    Not since I moved server, will get there again soon (bandwidth stats are fine at the minute but I need to set the browser to cache static resources such as css, images as well).
                    Bandwidth savings are secondary as to why you want to cache static content. Yeah you save some money if you're near your limit but it is more for the end user. When you cache static content, the end user has to download it less and this speeds up your site on their computer. vBulletin 5 is more reliant on static content than previous versions with heavy use of jQuery and more CSS use. Caching this helps them run the site faster after the initial page load. It reduces retrieving information to small network latency values. Some of our performance work as centered around this so that these items are cached on the client machine better and more frequently.


                    innodb tables.
                    Might want to see if they need some optimization for caching on their own behalf. There are threads in our server configuration forum for this. George, who does most of the customer optimization work, has extensive experience with vBulletin 5 already.
                    Translations provided by Google.

                    Wayne Luke
                    The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                    vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                    Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by George L View Post
                      Reason it's slower is if you run both your vb4 and vb5 tests sites through the following services http://gtmetrix.com,
                      The vB5 demo page gets a B/C rating
                      http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/for...bulletin-5-now

                      This very thread we are talking in gets a D/C
                      http://www.physicsforums.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by dethfire View Post
                        The vB5 demo page gets a B/C rating
                        http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/for...bulletin-5-now

                        This very thread we are talking in gets a D/C
                        Beta 28 will help improve some of those (some are server level factors). Improvements, especially css size reduction.

                        Preview of my own test forums (on my own dedicated server tuned and optimised at server level), fresh install comparing gtmetrix scores between beta 25 vs beta 28 http://imgur.com/a/dEHpa#0

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                        Still more performance improvements to be made as we're not there yet. But with each beta release there will be gradual improvements.
                        Last edited by George L; Thu 31 Jan '13, 6:57pm.
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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by George L View Post
                          Beta 28 will help improve some of those (some are server level factors) especially css size reduction.

                          Preview of my own test forums (on my own dedicated server tuned and optimised at server level), fresh install comparing gtmetrix scores between beta 25 vs beta 28 http://imgur.com/a/dEHpa#0
                          Now that is impressive!
                          http://www.physicsforums.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by George L View Post
                            Beta 28 will help improve some of those (some are server level factors). Improvements, especially css size reduction.

                            Preview of my own test forums (on my own dedicated server tuned and optimised at server level), fresh install comparing gtmetrix scores between beta 25 vs beta 28 http://imgur.com/a/dEHpa#0


                            Still more performance improvements to be made as we're not there yet. But with each beta release there will be gradual improvements.
                            NOT TRUE!!! Try to analyze pages with images. And your score goes to "D" - 65 %
                            www.wood-furniture.biz/forums/

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by waldvb View Post
                              NOT TRUE!!! Try to analyze pages with images. And your score goes to "D" - 65 %
                              Hence George mentioned that we are not there yet!

                              Performance is a high priority.
                              MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

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                              • #45
                                I hope so. Because VB is very unfriendly for images. Pages with images are very slow.
                                www.wood-furniture.biz/forums/

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