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  • In Omnibus
    replied
    To be frank, the CMS has never been a selling point of vBulletin. It's simply not the primary function of the software. It's an additional feature half of the customers care about half of the time. If one needed CMS to be the primary function one has far more appealing options. vBulletin 5 has the potential to change that. My sites would require a CMS that is easily changed from one hour to the next. vB5 has the architecture to do just exactly that. For all of the positives of WordPress, there are definite drawbacks to using it as a plugin CMS. The 100% customizable "drag and drop" CMS of vB5 should make it every bit as useful as WordPress with the added benefit of single sign-on, higher security, etc. One thing I find to be a complete drawback to WordPress is that in order to use it as a CMS I would have to update it several times daily. That is far more time consuming than the return warrants. There are also a fairly large number of customers who simply want improved forum software and couldn't care less about CMS, articles, blogs, albums, etc. It's a time-consuming challenge to attempt to release a product that is pleasing to most of the customer base most of the time. This is why vB isn't forcing customers under duress to purchase the vB5 beta and is offering vB4.2 with the purchase of a vB5 beta license. Because customers who do depend on the CMS won't upgrade until vB5 has one. And that's just one of the countless reasons.

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  • soniceffect
    replied
    Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
    However, if this is the position of vb why would anyone upgrade from a 4.2 suite to 5.0 gold without a CMS being present?
    To be fair, not everyone uses CMS. Also of those who do there are some who will be able to do without and others that can use the sitebuilder for the purpose for the time being. Personally Im in the latter. There is nothing I need in the cms that I cannot create pages for with sitebuilder for the time being. End of the day not everyone needs it so to say "anyone" is simply not correct. I mean there are also those who do not have suite in the first place, which is a lot of people I would have thought.

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  • Solitaire
    replied
    I mean is it really too much to ask to get an official email that says

    *This beta sale is not a part of the phased initial release schedule
    *Gold release will begin the phased initial release
    *The CMS will be a point release to be determined.

    And yes a point release is a major addition to the software but it is not considered to be an initial release. However, if this is the position of vb why would anyone upgrade from a 4.2 suite to 5.0 gold without a CMS being present?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Originally posted by Ace View Post
    It might be that they didn't think it necessary to tell people that.

    You don't see a lot of automobile ads that state "With 4 wheels!" or "Not suitable for prolonged periods of use submerged in salt water!" because those things are implied - like with the release cycle of software, and especially where it's clearly stated that things like support only start ticking once it goes gold.
    Using that analogy would take into account a prior history of expectations that have already been proven to not be the case because there were major feature releases that were not point releases in the beginning with 4.0 and then there was an announcement that they would not be doing that anymore with 4.0. Have yet to see if that will be the case with 5.0.

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  • Ace
    replied
    It might be that they didn't think it necessary to tell people that.

    You don't see a lot of automobile ads that state "With 4 wheels!" or "Not suitable for prolonged periods of use submerged in salt water!" because those things are implied - like with the release cycle of software, and especially where it's clearly stated that things like support only start ticking once it goes gold.

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=Solitaire;2354371]Since when does part of an "initial release" become a "point release"? Who does that?[/QUOTE]
    Everyone.

    Point releases are where major additions are made to software. A CMS would be a major addition, so it would warrant a Point Release.

    Leave a comment:


  • Solitaire
    replied
    Originally posted by Ace View Post
    We're not really on it yet, no. Also, 5.0 is not for sale. 5.0 beta x is for sale. Once it goes gold, that's when the cycle begins.

    A point release would be 5.1 or 5.2 or 5.3. All of those come after 5.0, so there's no chance of a point release prior to the end of beta.
    And that is all well and good, but that is not what is in that marketing email, I wish it was, but it isn't. That is all I am saying. It makes no mention of that release schedule being the gold release, because it doesn't say gold at all. Nor does it say that the CMS will explicitly be a point release. It just says "phased initial release". Since when does part of an "initial release" become a "point release"? Who does that? And then the marketing email right after that is the announcement that 5.0 beta 11 is available for purchase. I know what a point release is, but it has been demonstrated before that these naming conventions don't really mean the same in the vb world and could very well be subject to change at anytime. I'm not the only one who is confused as to when we should expect to see the CMS with the official information that has been given out.

    You could say yea, 5.0 beta x is on sale now, but that email just said 5.0 not 5.0 Gold. And the homepage is saying 5.0 too with just a disclaimer that it is still a beta.

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  • Ace
    replied
    Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
    So are we saying that right now we are not on the release schedule in the email or are we? With the software on sale I think that constitutes a release, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to assume. Because if they meant for that email to be that the CMS will not be in the GOLD release and it will be in a point release, then that is an entirely different picture, than just saying 5.0 because 5.0 is out and on sale now. Also who is to say that the beta won't go to a point release before it goes gold and then starts over as 5.0.0? That email doesn't answer those questions.
    We're not really on it yet, no. Also, 5.0 is not for sale. 5.0 beta x is for sale. Once it goes gold, that's when the cycle begins.

    A point release would be 5.1 or 5.2 or 5.3. All of those come after 5.0, so there's no chance of a point release prior to the end of beta.

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  • Solitaire
    replied
    Originally posted by Ace View Post
    It will do exactly that.
    So are we saying that right now we are not on the release schedule in the email or are we? With the software on sale I think that constitutes a release, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to assume. Because if they meant for that email to be that the CMS will not be in the GOLD release and it will be in a point release, then that is an entirely different picture, than just saying 5.0 because 5.0 is out and on sale now. Also who is to say that the beta won't go to a point release before it goes gold and then starts over as 5.0.0? That email doesn't answer those questions.

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  • Ace
    replied
    Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
    Gold will start over with 5.0.0
    It will do exactly that.

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  • Solitaire
    replied
    Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
    Neither did my post. I said for example
    Yes I see that you have said example, but I have seen other posts around here that have said it would be a point release, and I was just wanting to know if I missed an email or something that expressly said it would be a point release. Because from that original marketing email for all we know we could be in the middle of the "phased initial release" right now, and Gold will start over with 5.0.0

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  • soniceffect
    replied
    Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
    Yea but that email didn't say that the CMS would be a point release.
    Neither did my post. I said for example

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  • Solitaire
    replied
    Actually your post was more explicit in saying (i.e. 5.x and not 5.0.x) where as the marketing email and post is as muddy as ever because how are we to even know that because it says,

    "We will release the first update to vBulletin 5 Connect approximately 4-6 weeks after the 5.0 launch. This release will be focused on bug fixes, and will also include various non-English versions of vBulletin 5 Connect and possibly paid subscriptions."

    and then it says

    "The next piece of this phased initial release will bring to vBulletin 5 Connect article publishing capabilities similar to the current CMS in vBulletin 4 Suite. Tables and content for the current CMS will be imported into a new content channel regardless of whether the upgrade is done before or after this update, but that content will only be usable afterwards."

    So its just confusing because it talks about "supposedly" 1 bug release and then the next piece of "phased initial release" is the CMS. When I see "phased initial release" I think these are all being added in a metered roll out of 5.0 assuming that gold will start over at 5.0.0 but we don't know that because no one has expressly stated that. 5.X would be a new feature release by conventional terms.

    But like I said I'll take your word for it.

    EDIT:

    I mean you guys have to understand that the reason people keep asking where is the CMS and when will it vb5 be released, or is this the official release (because it is on sale) is not for lack of reading or looking for the information out there. These marketing emails that we receive are about as clear as mud, and give details that are hardly verifiable or rarely if ever pan out. It's very confusing when what most of us would like to see is a detailed event list so we can plan and strategize.
    Last edited by Solitaire; Thu 1 Nov '12, 5:01pm.

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  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
    Yea but that email didn't say that the CMS would be a point release. Nor did that email confirm or deny if this release (because it is on sale) is part of that release schedule that was outlined, or did it say that the CMS would not be in 5.0. For all we know Beta could end at 5.0.23 and 5.0.24 could be gold, and 5.0.25 could show us the CMS. I mean are you going by the same release naming that you used on vb4 (because from what I've seen thats kind of a big assumption for anyone to make without an official statement made like with 4.0 and the relationship of point releases) That's the information that I am unclear on. Are we in the release schedule that was sent out in August or not?

    Edit:
    Just saw this post


    But I have still yet to see that confirmed in any official email, but I will take your word for it. I have to say that is completely a disappointment that we have to wait until 5.1 to see the CMS :/
    Email has the exact same wording as the post linked above.

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  • Solitaire
    replied
    Yea but that email didn't say that the CMS would be a point release. Nor did that email confirm or deny if this release (because it is on sale) is part of that release schedule that was outlined, or did it say that the CMS would not be in 5.0. For all we know Beta could end at 5.0.23 and 5.0.24 could be gold, and 5.0.25 could show us the CMS. I mean are you going by the same release naming that you used on vb4 (because from what I've seen thats kind of a big assumption for anyone to make without an official statement made like with 4.0 and the relationship of point releases) That's the information that I am unclear on. Are we in the release schedule that was sent out in August or not?

    Edit:
    Just saw this post
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    The Article Publisher will come in an upcoming Feature Release (i.e. 5.X not 5.0.X). That will come in the future. This component will be rewritten completely and will not be ready for a 5.0.0 release.
    But I have still yet to see that confirmed in any official email, and I notice you didn't state 5.1 like I have been seeing others speculate around here. I will take your word for it. I have to say that is completely a disappointment that we have to wait until 5.X to see the CMS :/
    Last edited by Solitaire; Thu 1 Nov '12, 4:30pm.

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  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
    When did IB give this information out?
    An email was sent to all customers about the vBulletin 5 Release Plans. This was sent on August 23rd, 2012.

    In addition a thread was created with the information here: https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/show...-Release-Plans

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  • Solitaire
    replied
    Originally posted by soniceffect View Post

    It will not be released with 5.0 . It may well be 5.1 for example and therefore does fit the description above. Just looking at it from another point of view, Im glad its not being released with 5.0 as I dont want a half cut thing like in 4.0.
    When did IB give this information out?

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