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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ace View Post
    It will do exactly that.
    So are we saying that right now we are not on the release schedule in the email or are we? With the software on sale I think that constitutes a release, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to assume. Because if they meant for that email to be that the CMS will not be in the GOLD release and it will be in a point release, then that is an entirely different picture, than just saying 5.0 because 5.0 is out and on sale now. Also who is to say that the beta won't go to a point release before it goes gold and then starts over as 5.0.0? That email doesn't answer those questions.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
      So are we saying that right now we are not on the release schedule in the email or are we? With the software on sale I think that constitutes a release, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to assume. Because if they meant for that email to be that the CMS will not be in the GOLD release and it will be in a point release, then that is an entirely different picture, than just saying 5.0 because 5.0 is out and on sale now. Also who is to say that the beta won't go to a point release before it goes gold and then starts over as 5.0.0? That email doesn't answer those questions.
      We're not really on it yet, no. Also, 5.0 is not for sale. 5.0 beta x is for sale. Once it goes gold, that's when the cycle begins.

      A point release would be 5.1 or 5.2 or 5.3. All of those come after 5.0, so there's no chance of a point release prior to the end of beta.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ace View Post
        We're not really on it yet, no. Also, 5.0 is not for sale. 5.0 beta x is for sale. Once it goes gold, that's when the cycle begins.

        A point release would be 5.1 or 5.2 or 5.3. All of those come after 5.0, so there's no chance of a point release prior to the end of beta.
        And that is all well and good, but that is not what is in that marketing email, I wish it was, but it isn't. That is all I am saying. It makes no mention of that release schedule being the gold release, because it doesn't say gold at all. Nor does it say that the CMS will explicitly be a point release. It just says "phased initial release". Since when does part of an "initial release" become a "point release"? Who does that? And then the marketing email right after that is the announcement that 5.0 beta 11 is available for purchase. I know what a point release is, but it has been demonstrated before that these naming conventions don't really mean the same in the vb world and could very well be subject to change at anytime. I'm not the only one who is confused as to when we should expect to see the CMS with the official information that has been given out.

        You could say yea, 5.0 beta x is on sale now, but that email just said 5.0 not 5.0 Gold. And the homepage is saying 5.0 too with just a disclaimer that it is still a beta.
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        • #19
          It might be that they didn't think it necessary to tell people that.

          You don't see a lot of automobile ads that state "With 4 wheels!" or "Not suitable for prolonged periods of use submerged in salt water!" because those things are implied - like with the release cycle of software, and especially where it's clearly stated that things like support only start ticking once it goes gold.

          - - - Updated - - -

          [QUOTE=Solitaire;2354371]Since when does part of an "initial release" become a "point release"? Who does that?[/QUOTE]
          Everyone.

          Point releases are where major additions are made to software. A CMS would be a major addition, so it would warrant a Point Release.
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          • #20
            I mean is it really too much to ask to get an official email that says

            *This beta sale is not a part of the phased initial release schedule
            *Gold release will begin the phased initial release
            *The CMS will be a point release to be determined.

            And yes a point release is a major addition to the software but it is not considered to be an initial release. However, if this is the position of vb why would anyone upgrade from a 4.2 suite to 5.0 gold without a CMS being present?

            - - - Updated - - -

            Originally posted by Ace View Post
            It might be that they didn't think it necessary to tell people that.

            You don't see a lot of automobile ads that state "With 4 wheels!" or "Not suitable for prolonged periods of use submerged in salt water!" because those things are implied - like with the release cycle of software, and especially where it's clearly stated that things like support only start ticking once it goes gold.
            Using that analogy would take into account a prior history of expectations that have already been proven to not be the case because there were major feature releases that were not point releases in the beginning with 4.0 and then there was an announcement that they would not be doing that anymore with 4.0. Have yet to see if that will be the case with 5.0.
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            • #21
              Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
              However, if this is the position of vb why would anyone upgrade from a 4.2 suite to 5.0 gold without a CMS being present?
              To be fair, not everyone uses CMS. Also of those who do there are some who will be able to do without and others that can use the sitebuilder for the purpose for the time being. Personally Im in the latter. There is nothing I need in the cms that I cannot create pages for with sitebuilder for the time being. End of the day not everyone needs it so to say "anyone" is simply not correct. I mean there are also those who do not have suite in the first place, which is a lot of people I would have thought.
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              • #22
                To be frank, the CMS has never been a selling point of vBulletin. It's simply not the primary function of the software. It's an additional feature half of the customers care about half of the time. If one needed CMS to be the primary function one has far more appealing options. vBulletin 5 has the potential to change that. My sites would require a CMS that is easily changed from one hour to the next. vB5 has the architecture to do just exactly that. For all of the positives of WordPress, there are definite drawbacks to using it as a plugin CMS. The 100% customizable "drag and drop" CMS of vB5 should make it every bit as useful as WordPress with the added benefit of single sign-on, higher security, etc. One thing I find to be a complete drawback to WordPress is that in order to use it as a CMS I would have to update it several times daily. That is far more time consuming than the return warrants. There are also a fairly large number of customers who simply want improved forum software and couldn't care less about CMS, articles, blogs, albums, etc. It's a time-consuming challenge to attempt to release a product that is pleasing to most of the customer base most of the time. This is why vB isn't forcing customers under duress to purchase the vB5 beta and is offering vB4.2 with the purchase of a vB5 beta license. Because customers who do depend on the CMS won't upgrade until vB5 has one. And that's just one of the countless reasons.

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                • #23
                  My feedback: "Content is King"

                  The things y'all say. The CMS was the selling point for vb4 suite ....smh carry on

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rexxxy View Post
                    The things y'all say. The CMS was the selling point for vb4 suite ....smh carry on
                    I defy you to find a customer who purchased vBulletin primarily for the CMS, and not primarily for the forum software.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
                      I mean is it really too much to ask to get an official email that says

                      *This beta sale is not a part of the phased initial release schedule
                      Do you understand the concept of a beta release? No beta is ever part of "the phased initial release schedule". It is exactly what it says - a beta version - which most people would and should know will contain bugs, probably numerous bugs, and which will typically lack full functionality. This isn't IB policy. This is universal.

                      Originally posted by rexxxy View Post
                      The things y'all say. The CMS was the selling point for vb4 suite ....smh carry on
                      For whom? It wasn't for me and for the first several releases after 4.0 I wasn't using it at all (with 2 licenses). I bought the suite rather than the forum only version because I thought it might be something I would use down the line, which turned out to be the case. And numerous other people bought the forum only version because they didn't want the CMS and Blog features at all - ever. For all those people, if I understand correctly, there won't be a forum only version of vB5 but they may well want to upgrade anyway for the new look-and-feel or features.
                      Last edited by djbaxter; Fri 2 Nov '12, 9:04am.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
                        To be fair, not everyone uses CMS. Also of those who do there are some who will be able to do without and others that can use the sitebuilder for the purpose for the time being. Personally Im in the latter. There is nothing I need in the cms that I cannot create pages for with sitebuilder for the time being. End of the day not everyone needs it so to say "anyone" is simply not correct. I mean there are also those who do not have suite in the first place, which is a lot of people I would have thought.
                        I said anyone who purchased the 4.x suite. Why would you purchase the suite license and not use the CMS? It would be a waste of money when you could have gotten a forum license.

                        Originally posted by ProSportsForums View Post
                        To be frank, the CMS has never been a selling point of vBulletin. It's simply not the primary function of the software. It's an additional feature half of the customers care about half of the time. If one needed CMS to be the primary function one has far more appealing options. vBulletin 5 has the potential to change that. My sites would require a CMS that is easily changed from one hour to the next. vB5 has the architecture to do just exactly that. For all of the positives of WordPress, there are definite drawbacks to using it as a plugin CMS. The 100% customizable "drag and drop" CMS of vB5 should make it every bit as useful as WordPress with the added benefit of single sign-on, higher security, etc. One thing I find to be a complete drawback to WordPress is that in order to use it as a CMS I would have to update it several times daily. That is far more time consuming than the return warrants. There are also a fairly large number of customers who simply want improved forum software and couldn't care less about CMS, articles, blogs, albums, etc. It's a time-consuming challenge to attempt to release a product that is pleasing to most of the customer base most of the time. This is why vB isn't forcing customers under duress to purchase the vB5 beta and is offering vB4.2 with the purchase of a vB5 beta license. Because customers who do depend on the CMS won't upgrade until vB5 has one. And that's just one of the countless reasons.
                        CMS was the selling point of the 4.x suite. Otherwise you got a forum only license.

                        Originally posted by ProSportsForums View Post
                        I defy you to find a customer who purchased vBulletin primarily for the CMS, and not primarily for the forum software.
                        I purchased the suite for the CMS, and I purchased forum only licenses for forum only sites. Plus I see a TON of suite sites out there all the time. Just because they don't come here and join in the chorus of 3.x was the best software ever, and vb is strictly forum software doesn't mean they don't exist.

                        Originally posted by djbaxter View Post
                        Do you understand the concept of a beta release? No beta is ever part of "the phased initial release schedule". It is exactly what it says - a beta version - which most people would and should know will contain bugs, probably numerous bugs, and which will typically lack full functionality. This isn't IB policy. This is universal.
                        Yea just like beta's aren't for sale. IB hasn't gone universal software development life cycle models in the past so why believe they would now? And they have even said what they mean by beta is different so that's all moot.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
                          I said anyone who purchased the 4.x suite. Why would you purchase the suite license and not use the CMS? It would be a waste of money when you could have gotten a forum license.
                          See my post above.

                          Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
                          CMS was the selling point of the 4.x suite. Otherwise you got a forum only license.
                          Not necessarily. See my post above. There was a better discount on the suite and I thought I might eventually try the additional features, i.e., the BLOG as well as the CMS. Indeed, on one site my members are beginning to use the blogs in a limited way but even though it's now enabled the CMS feature is virtually dead.

                          That's not necessarily a negative, of course. vBulletin isn't custom coded for me or you or anyone else. There are several other features in vBulletin that I never used, e.g., groups and reputation, but I'm sure there are others who would see those features as essential.

                          Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
                          I purchased the suite for the CMS, and I purchased forum only licenses for forum only sites.
                          Fair enough. Clearly everyone doesn't think exactly the same as you do.
                          Last edited by djbaxter; Fri 2 Nov '12, 11:31am. Reason: typo
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
                            I said anyone who purchased the 4.x suite. Why would you purchase the suite license and not use the CMS? It would be a waste of money when you could have gotten a forum license.
                            4.X Forum license was actually more expensive because it did not include ticket support. For $10 over the cost of the Forum License and Ticket Support, you can purchase the Suite. Saves money in the long run.
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                            Wayne Luke
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by djbaxter View Post
                              See my post above.

                              Not necessarily. See my post above. There was a better discount on the suite and I thought I might eventually try the additional features, i.e., the BLOG as well as the CMS. Indeed, on one site my members are beginning to use the blogs in a limited way but even though it's now enabled the CMS feature is virtually dead.

                              That's not necessarily a negative, of course. vBulletin isn't cutom codedx for me or you or anyone else. There are several other features in vBulletin that I never used, e.g., groups and reputation, but I'm sure there are others who would see those features as essential.

                              Fair enough. Clearly everyone doesn't think exactly the same as you do.
                              I never said everyone thought the same as I did. I just asked the question why would anyone do that. Just because there are people who did, doesn't mean my question was any less relevant. I wanted to know a reason why that would be a motivation. You provided yours and that is great. Doesn't mean I was insisting everyone thought the same as I do. On the contrary, I think that not everyone's primary motivation for purchasing the suite was just to get a forum.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                              4.X Forum license was actually more expensive because it did not include ticket support. For $10 over the cost of the Forum License and Ticket Support, you can purchase the Suite. Saves money in the long run.
                              I dont think I looked at that when I made my purchases. Infact I know I didn't because I was upgrading one 3.x site and I started one on 4.x so yea, that wasn't a deciding factor but I can understand how a brand new user might see that benefit.
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ProSportsForums View Post
                                To be frank, the CMS has never been a selling point of vBulletin. It's simply not the primary function of the software. It's an additional feature half of the customers care about half of the time. The 100% customizable "drag and drop" CMS of vB5 should make it every bit as useful as WordPress with the added benefit of single sign-on, higher security, etc. fairly large number of customers who simply want improved forum software and couldn't care less about CMS, articles, blogs, albums, etc.
                                I didn't care much about the CMS until I started using it for news and jobs. Now I do care about it.

                                The 100% customizable "drag and drop" CMS of vB5 sounds great but unless I missed something in the recent announcements it's still not here today.

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