Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The mod community will embrace vB5 Connect.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • IcEWoLF
    replied
    Well this thread turned out to be a total success!

    Thanks for the explanation guys!

    Leave a comment:


  • DragonByte Tech
    replied
    Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
    MVC is a standard.
    I don't believe I'd go so far as to call it a standard. I believe I called it a "design paradigm" - what I meant by that was that it's more of a guideline to accomplish something, but you still have a choice in implementation.

    The fact that vB allows API calls to be made in the Presentation layer is a huge boon to developers. It allows for streamlining code to only run array building code if/when it's needed, etc - as opposed to needing to prepare it all beforehand.

    vB does still adhere to the MVC principle, it contains all the same elements of xF - API & Library (Model), Template Rendering / Presentation (View), Controller & Route (Controller). You just have additional choice to render templates into vars that are returned from an API call, if you so choose. But if you do (and I have), it's you who violates MVC, not vB

    In short, vB5 does not make it extraordinarily difficult to violate MVC if for who knows what reason you need to. This is nothing but a boon to developers, it does no harm whatsoever.

    Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
    Ok, then all is well and I guess this text from Fillip was just misinterpreted.
    Sorry for it being ambiguous, I'm very much not skilled at explaining my thoughts so others who can't read my mind can understand me. I was indeed referring to the {vb:data} API call syntax - IIRC there's no equiv in xF.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
    Ok, rethinking I'll take that back. Yes, a standard can be improved and once it is improved, it could be considered "newer". But adding the possibility to use PHP in vB's template system doesn't necessarily mean something good either and if there is any way to override controllers (like manipulating data, not needed for a certain view) with this possibility, then it will be used to cludge.
    To an extent, you've always been able to use some PHP in vBulletin's templates. That is what template conditionals and all those $variables are. We just encapsulate the PHP into a different form. Can even manipulate the conditional code to set variables and alter the output of the page if you know what you're doing. With vBulletin 4, we started encapsulating the variables ({vb:var}, {vb:raw}, {vb:url}, {vbhrase}, etc...} to make the product more secure. Kind of a template within a template within a templating script language.

    In vBulletin 5 you cannot write direct PHP in the templates. This is no different than before. However there new template tags that give more control. These include:

    {vb:data} - Allows you to pull data from a specific API method.
    {vb:set} - Allows you to set a variable for that template only.
    {vb:template} - Pulls in a different template instead of using a direct PHP variable.
    {vb:strcat} - Used to concatenate two strings usually phrases.
    {vb:strrepeat} - Allows you to repeat a string X times.

    There are a few others as well to load javascript, load CSS, etc... As with all previous {functions} and <tags>, these are rendered into their appropriate PHP when the template is saved. This has been the case since conditionals were added in 3.X and the syntax expanded in the 4.X series.

    The main reason for these new tools is that the Presentation layer, where the templates are rendered, does not have direct access to the database. It needs to go through the Core API layer to get that information.
    Last edited by Wayne Luke; Wed 24th Oct '12, 10:04am.

    Leave a comment:


  • jdj
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    What notice about Vertical Response and where?
    The short answer to this is I can't remember; I think it was in one of the email announcements or marketing press releases.

    Either way, when the CMS and Calendar come along I'll take a look at vB5. If the Vertical Response bit hasn't changed much I won't be using it; MailChimp works much better.

    Leave a comment:


  • hornstar6969
    replied
    Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
    Ok, rethinking I'll take that back. Yes, a standard can be improved and once it is improved, it could be considered "newer". But adding the possibility to use PHP in vB's template system doesn't necessarily mean something good either and if there is any way to override controllers (like manipulating data, not needed for a certain view) with this possibility, then it will be used to cludge.

    And again, it is all hypothetical, without documentation I am certainly not going to take the time at this point to go learn how it works by digging through the code. I am sure many other admins/devs feel this way too. So, getting the thread back on track, without good docs, it's going to be that bit harder for add-on devs to embrace vB5.

    Scott
    Im sure there is plenty in the beta tester forums and im sure it will be made public in due course.

    Leave a comment:


  • soniceffect
    replied
    Originally posted by ProSportsForums View Post
    I know you were. That's why I attempted to clarify what the vBulletin manual actually states. They are not advertising standard MVC as a new feature. They are advertising a new architecture of MVC.
    Ohhhh I see ... my bad, long day LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • In Omnibus
    replied
    Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
    If you look closely you will see a question mark, making it a question not an arguement. I was actually asking the question.
    I know you were. That's why I attempted to clarify what the vBulletin manual actually states. They are not advertising standard MVC as a new feature. They are advertising a new architecture of MVC.

    Leave a comment:


  • soniceffect
    replied
    Originally posted by AlexanderT View Post
    Hmm, yeah, it makes it wrong, if you advertise MVC as one of the key new features of vB 5 Connect.
    Fair enough, hadnt been on there and seen that tbh.

    Originally posted by ProSportsForums View Post
    So, of course someone is drawing an illogical line between standard MVC and what vBulletin clearly states is a new architecture. Selective reading makes for easy formation of arguments.
    If you look closely you will see a question mark, making it a question not an arguement. I was actually asking the question.

    Leave a comment:


  • In Omnibus
    replied
    Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
    So the new "vB MVC" architecture is probably similar to their definition of what a beta version is too, right?

    MVC is a standard. You can't make it newer. It is what it is and if you don't follow the standard, you have something else and you can't really call it MVC. Maybe it should be called vB KOM architecture?

    And it is a shame we even have to bicker about this instead of reading about what the system's new architecture is really all about. The manual needs a lot of work.

    Scott
    I respectfully disagree. HTML was a standard too. It's been made newer several times. Some still embrace HTML. Others XHTML. Still others HTML5. To each his or her own.

    I do fully concur the manual is far beyond sub-par. It borders upon useless, particularly in this regard. But I would also venture the average end user cares more about "Can I make it do this?" than they care about the underlying architecture that causes the software to make it do what they want.

    Leave a comment:


  • In Omnibus
    replied
    Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
    Surely anything else is a different model and not MVC as apposed to cludging. Just because MVC is not used doesnt make it wrong?
    vBulletin 5 Connect introduces a new MVC Architecture designed to separate the business logic from the presentation logic more than ever before. This will allow vBulletin 5 to be quickly and easily extended as we bring new features to the software.
    So, of course someone is drawing an illogical line between standard MVC and what vBulletin clearly states is a new architecture. Selective reading makes for easy formation of arguments.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlexanderT
    replied
    Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
    Just because MVC is not used doesnt make it wrong?
    Hmm, yeah, it makes it wrong, if you advertise MVC as one of the key new features of vB 5 Connect.

    Leave a comment:


  • soniceffect
    replied
    Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
    Absolutely. Anything else is cludging.

    Scott
    Surely anything else is a different model and not MVC as apposed to cludging. Just because MVC is not used doesnt make it wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • 0ptima
    replied
    Originally posted by DragonByte Tech View Post
    You see, xF takes the Model-View-Controller (MVC for short) principle and sticks to it. In other words, you cannot access the database in the "View" layer (vB calls it the "presentation" layer). This means you have to ensure you've fetched all your data prior to actually sending it to the presentation layer.
    This is MVC done right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neo_Angelo
    replied
    Originally posted by digitalpoint View Post
    At least there is money to be made for good mod developers. Whoever is the first to make a paid subscription and/or infraction system that can import data from vB4 will make a good chunk of change. Those are two fairly core features that for whatever reason didn't make the cut for vB5. Of course not every site sells subscriptions, but a lot do... But the lack of the infraction system is actually borderline crazy... Does anyone *not* rely on the infraction system in vB4 to track and control problematic users?
    I've never once relied on the infraction system for vB4 as i hated it, and could never understand why it was made the way it was, i LOVED iTechs user warning mod and have used that ever since because the infraction system was just too much for something that could be done so simply (iTech reffering to the old Inferno Tech that no longer exists).

    As for the vB5 debate i'm unsure myself whether or not to make the upgrade, at the moment i see no point for me as to me vb5 seems like a downgrade to me that people are paying for as it doesn't yet have the features i'd need to upgrade, but as Iain mentioned if its progressing how it is then who knows, it may end up being better than vB4 and that will be the time i choose to upgrade.

    As an ex-staff member (of some time now) of the DB-Tech team i can safely say (and i am no obligated to say it either, just my two cents) that no matter how good/bad vB5 is, i'm certain Iain will have had plans to fit his business needs and shift DB-Tech forward regardless of vB as his business isn't dependant on vB at all, now i'm not 100% clued up on DB-Tech policies/plans/aims and such but i do know from the time working with Iain is that he's a brilliant strategist and has a fantastic business head and when it comes to knowledge i'm sure he could rival some of the top brass businesses, not to mention an absolutly top quality team behind him, he will get done what needs to be done and to the highest standard. Just look at how sucessful his business is from filling those gaps, to go from a 4-man team (Myself, Deceptor, Iain and Fillip) to a team of 7 which his business has probably doubled if not more over the past year or so, With some of the most well known and most used Mods its safe to say he knows what he's doing. To totally disregard what he's said would be like saying that the queen of England doesn't exist.

    Now i'm not here to sing Iains praises, his company more than does that for him, what i want to make clear is that just because everyone elses opinion on vB is different, doesn't mean you should dismiss such a valuable opinion that comes from Iain and the team.

    My personal opinion of vB5 aside from missing the features i want is that it looks quite good, sure it has things i'll never use (like activity stream, blogs and other things) it seems like its designed with ease of use for both coders and non-coders. having had a little go on my friends vb5 test boards i can safely say it appears much easier to do things and the steps needed to do them are dramatically reduced. I like the drag and drop feature very much and since i used to skin a bit for vB3 it looks as though it might be even easier to skin than vB3 (not a huge fan of skinning for vB4 as vb4 style vars were lame, i liked the old style stylevars which got removed).

    On the whole i'm sure IB know what they are doing despite not showing this when they took over Jelsoft. Have faith and i'm sure it'll pay off.

    Leave a comment:


  • Riasat
    replied
    Originally posted by jdj View Post
    The only bug we've noticed recently is that if you put bolding around links in the notices it messes up your site.
    Is there a bug report for it? I have a feeling it is not a bug at all. You are welcome to open a support ticket (email to [email protected]) and explain the issue.

    Leave a comment:

Related Topics

Collapse

Working...
X