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  • #31
    Originally posted by iyama View Post
    Maybe has Dragon a free vb5 license from vb?
    And is there a interest of 10% of all he sales to members?

    Like FaceB is paying vb.
    And the titanic didnt really sink, the moonlanding was a hoax, and aliens were discovered in new mexico
    Husky Owners Forum - For all Siberian Husky Owners

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    • #32
      Originally posted by iyama View Post
      Maybe has Dragon a free vb5 license from vb?
      And is there a interest of 10% of all he sales to members?

      Like FaceB is paying vb.
      I'd imagine no one will actually believe that, but for the sake of clarity:

      There is no financial/monetary relationship between DragonByte Technologies Ltd or any of its employees or officers and Internet Brands or vBulletin Solutions Inc beyond us purchasing vBulletin licenses for use on our sites.

      Iain
      www.Dragonbyte-tech.com

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      • #33
        Originally posted by DragonByte Tech View Post
        I'm not familiar with Shawn's complaints regarding vB5, but I bet he has a different perspective than DBTech due to being in a different situation than us (whatever that situation might be).
        The concerns made by Rafio, Shawn(digitalpoint), Floren(Sphinx searchlight) state that vb5 has horrible code quality and is the code/design of the software is a complete disaster and that it would be best for IB to scrap it and start over.
        They also expect that the mod community will be severely damaged by vb5.
        Could you comment on their statements?
        I buy 420 forums

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        • #34
          Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
          As for the steps in coding an add-on. Is the final effort to program an add-on the same, more or less than with Xenforo? I honestly don't know the answer, but would like to know it.
          Once you get past the steps I described above, actual coding is more or less identical, or in favour of vB depending on the design of your addon.

          You see, xF takes the Model-View-Controller (MVC for short) principle and sticks to it. In other words, you cannot access the database in the "View" layer (vB calls it the "presentation" layer). This means you have to ensure you've fetched all your data prior to actually sending it to the presentation layer.
          There's no way to call PHP code from within templates like it is in vB5.

          This fact alone can, depending on the needs of your addon, significantly slow down development time on xF as you attempt to find a work-around. However, in fairness, only 1 addon that I've written for xF was affected, namely xFShout (vBShout).
          I believe the work-around I used was to initialise the database variable aga

          The other addons we wrote for xF were completed with little to no problems or difference in development time

          Please do note that this does not mean xF or vB "does it wrong" or "does it right" - both forum softwares simply took a design paradigm and implemented it in their own unique way. Personally, I happen to prefer vB's implementation for the reasons IceWolf displayed in the quoted blog post


          Fillip

          - - - Updated - - -

          Originally posted by Alfa1 View Post
          The concerns made by Rafio, Shawn(digitalpoint), Floren(Sphinx searchlight) state that vb5 has horrible code quality and is the code/design of the software is a complete disaster and that it would be best for IB to scrap it and start over.
          They also expect that the mod community will be severely damaged by vb5.
          Could you comment on their statements?
          I fundamentally disagree that the code needs to be "scrapped and started over". It has issues, but the progress over the past couple of months has shown they are recoverable and resolvable. There's nothing so fundamentally unfixable to require an entire rewrite in my humble opinion (Fillip agrees with this, I should add)

          As far as the idea that the mod community will be serverely damaged by vB5... People said the same thing about vB4. vB4 currently has more mods than vB 3.8, so we all know how that turned out . Is vB5 different from vB3/4? Yes. Will some people drop out rather than learn the new system? Yep. Do I think other people will fill that gap over time? Absolutely.

          I can't speak for every mod author here, but I can say from personal experience that the team currently in place are going out of their way to support mod authors as much as possible - directly engaging developers to find out how the system could be made friendlier for them. They are making much more of an effort than I can recall being made at the start of vB4 - more of an effort than I've heard of from other forum software as well. The fact they recognize the importance of the mod community bodes well.

          As I've mentioned before, the code does have problems, but we're basing our statements not just on the code as it exists, but from our knowledge of the continuing improvements and our expectation of how the product will be if the same effort and pace continues. If you look at an early beta (as those posts are) and assume that's the end product then yeah such drastic end of the world opinions might hold weight - that's not the end product though, and the rate of change and fixes has me feeling optimistic about the end product.

          Iain
          www.Dragonbyte-tech.com

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Deimos View Post
            What bothers me, is several professional coders say the code is awful, yet DByte, who I consider a professional coder as well, seems to be saying opposite.

            So I can only assume that his statement was made, because his entire website is devoted to VB themes and plugins.

            He probably fears for the future of VB5, thus makes said statement to try and guarantee his sales for the future, as his opinion on such things MUST have an effect on potential VB5 customers.
            I've just installed one of his mods and it looks quite good to me. His site isn't entirely devoted to vB because he's got stuff on there for Xenforo as well. I don't see a big problem with him developing supported plugins for vB. I'd rather pay 50 dollars and have something that works than get something free that wastes hours of my time.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by jdj View Post
              I've just installed one of his mods and it looks quite good to me. His site isn't entirely devoted to vB because he's got stuff on there for Xenforo as well. I don't see a big problem with him developing supported plugins for vB. I'd rather pay 50 dollars and have something that works than get something free that wastes hours of my time.
              The problem is with those 50 dollars plugins that they should be included as standard in vB5.
              How many features are missing from it?
              4-5?
              14-15?
              More?

              5 times $50 = $250
              vB Connect + standard "mods"= $400+

              The price of vB5 is increasing significantly.


              vB5 is unequivocally the best forum software, but not yet...

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              • #37
                Originally posted by beishe8 View Post
                The problem is with those 50 dollars plugins that they should be included as standard in vB5.
                How many features are missing from it?
                4-5?
                14-15?
                More?

                5 times $50 = $250
                vB Connect + standard "mods"= $400+

                The price of vB5 is increasing significantly.
                I agree that the present absence of the calendar and the CMS is a big problem (for me because we use both). We've been trying the Vertical Response mailing function in vB4 and are not impressed with it; MailChimp is better as far as we can see. We'd probably be using DBTech's vBMail mod as well if there was a feature in it to allow the admin that usually sends out our mailings to format an HTML email within it and add graphics just as we can with MailChimp. I don't know whether the VR integration in vB5 is any better; if Vertical Response doesn't tell you who has unsubscribed (as MailChimp does) then we won't be using it.

                I'm not in a position to judge vB5 at the moment and assess its value though, and whether it is or isn't overpriced, because without the CMS and calendar I'd just be wasting my time.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by beishe8 View Post
                  The problem is with those 50 dollars plugins that they should be included as standard in vB5.
                  How many features are missing from it?
                  4-5?
                  14-15?
                  More?

                  5 times $50 = $250
                  vB Connect + standard "mods"= $400+

                  The price of vB5 is increasing significantly.
                  You think things like vbshop, vbshout, vbsignatures, vbquiz, vbslider, vbnominate, vbmail, vbdownloads, vbavatars, vbarcade, vbcredits, rpg, gallery, vbforms to name a few should be standard in vb5?? Personally if that happened I would instantly move away from what would be a seriously bloated platform.
                  Husky Owners Forum - For all Siberian Husky Owners

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
                    You think things like vbshop, vbshout, vbsignatures, vbquiz, vbslider, vbnominate, vbmail, vbdownloads, vbavatars, vbarcade, vbcredits, rpg, gallery, vbforms to name a few should be standard in vb5?? Personally if that happened I would instantly move away from what would be a seriously bloated platform.
                    It would be problematic, that's true. The mod that we've installed from DBTech is the advanced like mod (which we like ). I wouldn't want to install all the mods because the site would be very slow. DBTech's own site is slow to load on my machine (with good reason) because they showcase all their mods. I put up with that because I want the information on the site but I wouldn't want every mod on my site. By being able to pick and choose addons I get a choice. Doesn't matter to me whether that choice comes from vB or DBTech as long as the products are compatible.

                    The difficulty with vB5 is prioritisation, deciding what should be core. For me the absence at the present time of the calendar and the CMS are big deficiencies because they would result in you losing important content if you are using these features. It doesn't matter if your content is archived; if your customers have a habit of using these features they'd have lost that habit by the time you deployed and you'd still lose content.

                    The mailing features to me would also be core, but our experience of Vertical Response I would say is below par . If the new integrated VR doesn't tell you who has unsubscribed then I'd prefer to pay for a mod from DBTech that doesn't just create a mailing list, but also makes it easy for you to produce formatted html emails.

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                    • #40
                      Completely agree, I too need the CMS and Calender. However it was stated the CMS was not to be in the first release so therefore I just wont upgrade as of yet. Same with the calender and if they are holding it back because it needs a decent reworking to me thats a plus. The CMS I am actually very glad its not going to be in the first release. VB4 CMS can be a pain in the backside so would rather wait than them trying to push it out with the first release. There is enough for them to sort out without these other items. End of the day Im in no rush to upgrade. I have the licence so once it is ready I have everything there, however Im in no rush to do so. My site is running perfectly well as it is, and when the time comes that it is ready for my site I will do the update. Personally dont care if thats 3 month or 18 month, I will do it when I feel its ready and Im ready.
                      Husky Owners Forum - For all Siberian Husky Owners

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
                        ...and when the time comes that it is ready for my site I will do the update. Personally dont care if thats 3 month or 18 month, I will do it when I feel its ready and Im ready.
                        And this is the point we've tried to keep stressing to people. You don't HAVE to upgrade because you have the license, you should upgrade only when the software is ready for your own site.
                        Vote for:

                        - *Admin Settable Paid Subscription Reminder Timeframe*
                        -
                        *PM - Add ability to reply to originator only*
                        - Add Admin ability to auto-subscribe users to specific channel(s)
                        - Highlight the correct navigation tab when you are on a custom page
                        - "Quick Route" Interface...
                        - Allow to use custom icons for individual forums

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Trevor Hannant View Post
                          And this is the point we've tried to keep stressing to people. You don't HAVE to upgrade because you have the license, you should upgrade only when the software is ready for your own site.
                          What if it's never ready?
                          A fair amount of people consider VB4 "ready", but only after 2 years of bug squashing and heck, it's still got a load of bugs in it after 2 years.

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                          • #43
                            Don't buy a license until you feel it is then. You don't have to upgrade like many people have chosen not to upgrade from 3.x - there's no License Agreement clause that forces you to buy or use the latest version...
                            Vote for:

                            - *Admin Settable Paid Subscription Reminder Timeframe*
                            -
                            *PM - Add ability to reply to originator only*
                            - Add Admin ability to auto-subscribe users to specific channel(s)
                            - Highlight the correct navigation tab when you are on a custom page
                            - "Quick Route" Interface...
                            - Allow to use custom icons for individual forums

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Deimos View Post
                              What if it's never ready?
                              A fair amount of people consider VB4 "ready", but only after 2 years of bug squashing and heck, it's still got a load of bugs in it after 2 years.
                              Never? Extremist much? Most major software releases continue to develop well after the Gold release. You post as though the plug has been pulled on all other options. You may not be enamored with the options but you have them. There comes a point where criticism is no longer constructive and you've long since passed that point.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Deimos View Post
                                A fair amount of people consider VB4 "ready", but only after 2 years of bug squashing and heck, it's still got a load of bugs in it after 2 years.
                                vB4 works pretty much from what we can see. The only bug we've noticed recently is that if you put bolding around links in the notices it messes up your site. So we don't use the notices much and we've learned to live with the limitations of the CMS.

                                - - - Updated - - -

                                Originally posted by soniceffect View Post
                                it was stated the CMS was not to be in the first release so therefore I just wont upgrade as of yet. Same with the calender and if they are holding it back because it needs a decent reworking to me thats a plus. The CMS I am actually very glad its not going to be in the first release. VB4 CMS can be a pain in the backside so would rather wait than them trying to push it out with the first release.
                                I would probably feel the same way, except that one of the other admins was complaining about Vertical Response and how difficult it was to use. We saw the notices that there would be a full integration with vB5 and so I said that things would get better. There's no date for release of the CMS or the calendar so the other admins just got fed up of messing around with Vertical Response. Yes, of course, when it comes out we want it to work, but the CMS and calendar are very much part of the core of vB4.

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