I'm sorry, I just don't like this...

[Paul M]

Mark is the Project Manager for vB5 & vB.com, AFAIK, Allen is still the PM for vB4.

[Bluetiereign]

I really only wanted to rant for a minute and drop it. I did not subscribe to this thread, and then took my family on a brief vacation. I have read the entire thread - and will simply say that I still feel, as the OP, that my feedback is legitimate. I appreciate everyone else who felt the same way standing up and saying so. I really do. But let me reiterate my greatest concerns I was trying to express before this thread became a discussion outside of it's intent.

1. This software is Alpha. Bicker over it being a 'general' thing or not - I shouldn't have to be guessing what is missing or not working yet - or not even going to be included. I should be reporting what is broken.
2. This software did not UPGRADE my site - it DEMOLISHED it. Nothing but the database remains. I don't give a crap about what I can build with it or who is building it. I had a site - now I don't. I have to build one again. I cannot believe that for the approximate $200.00 this software costs - that they couldn't have put it back in some kind of recognizable working order - EVEN IN BETA. I mean...really ?
3. My site is a fansite. Due to the inability of the company (Novalogic) to produce a new game, my site is dying. When it gets down to it.. none of this really matters to me, so I'm really not upset. This is simply a hobby. Which leads me to this. Until now, as a hobbyist, I could get what I needed rather quickly with a few clicks - and I had what I wanted. So go back to number 2 and read it again. If I had wanted drupal or typo3 learning curves - I could have downloaded them for free and been halfway there by now.

How exactly has it shredded your site? You said you havent upgraded your live site (nor should you do so in beta anyway), so Im a little lost by this.

Let me restate it and then put it a different way. I've 'upgraded' the software on the server here at my house. I am sitting here looking at what a vBulletin 5 Connect upgrade does. Well.. so far as I can tell, it shreds a website and let's you start over. That's the bottom line.

In other words: In my business, we call it 'taking it down to the studs'. People need to be made aware that the drywall won't be there, most of the plumbing fixtures are missing or inoperable, the electrical is a gamble, and the front door (CMS/Portal) isn't even here yet.

Furthermore, I don't want excuses or reasons for what I've experienced. This is feedback in a forum designated for it so that the makers of this software can answer with improvements to the experience if they so chose. Additionally, people are allowed to agree with it and hope for those improvements also.

Thanks again.

[Doug Brott]

Bluetie .. It sounds to me like it would demolish your site if you installed it today. Since you didn't actually install it, nothing was demolished.
You can continue to live in the old house while the new house is still under construction.

That being said, the new house is still very much undone and I agree that clear expectations would be nice. Most of us know we want to move forward long term, but the earlybird discount seemed like it was (1) closer to done than it is and (2) and enticement to begin the switch. the part that is missing is properly setting expectations. I don't think anything is wrong with calling this code Beta or Alpha or George for that matter.

[beishe8]

Mark is the Project Manager for vB5 & vB.com, AFAIK, Allen is still the PM for vB4.

All manpower is on vB5. The teams are working hard to create a heart, a lung,etc for the newborn with defects.
vB4 development is suspended.
Does it mean that the vB4 PM has been sent for leave to some exotic island because ATM there is no one to manage?

[vijayninel]

Scott molinari's 'official vB avatar' seems to be gone but good to see he has kept his user title.

[soniceffect]

Let me restate it and then put it a different way. I've 'upgraded' the software on the server here at my house. I am sitting here looking at what a vBulletin 5 Connect upgrade does. Well.. so far as I can tell, it shreds a website and let's you start over. That's the bottom line.

Not sure where you have the impression it makes you start over tbh. I will say however I have also had issues with the upgrades and the latest one is actually working really well. I have upgraded mine a few times in testing (750k+) and also know another has been being tested with 1.6m although there are some issues with that one at present.

No doubt there are issues with the upgrader, however it was specifically stated that it wasnt ready for that as of yet anyways. IMO when they say it is ready for that, then there is an issue. At the moment there is not, as they know its not ready for it, they stated as much, there has been no secret made of that fact.

[drdoc]

I really trust VB team and i believe them and hopefully they bring out excellent VB5 live very soon. I like you VB an also dedicated VB staff

[Mr Peabody]

I bought a VB4 upgrade pretty early on and sat it it for a year after looking at how much trouble others were having, after finally upgrading from 3 to 4 which was a nightmare I've only just got Vb4 the way I like it and can't believe we're already at 5 and people talking about 6? I certainly won't be uprooting everything and my members again any time soon.
These new versions are all good and well for forums that aren't heavily modified but for us we have to wait if and when the mods we use catch up.
Hopefully I'm not the only customer who feels the same.

[soniceffect]

I bought a VB4 upgrade pretty early on and sat it it for a year after looking at how much trouble others were having, after finally upgrading from 3 to 4 which was a nightmare I've only just got Vb4 the way I like it and can't believe we're already at 5 and people talking about 6? I certainly won't be uprooting everything and my members again any time soon.
These new versions are all good and well for forums that aren't heavily modified but for us we have to wait if and when the mods we use catch up.
Hopefully I'm not the only customer who feels the same.

In fairness it is customers who are talking about vb6, nobody else lol. I agree, Im another who will be not upgrading to vb5 soon. I have a licence, however like yourself my site is quite heavily modded and will need to wait for some mods to update, and others I will need to write myself. However that said Im glad that they have moved forward with vb5. Just because its going to be released doesnt mean I have to instantly jump and upgrade to it. If I dont upgrade to vb5 till after vb27 beta 1 comes out it doesnt matter. Im happy with my site and present and I will upgrade once everything is ready, Im happy with it, and I (to be blunt) can be bothered LOL.

Point is, there seems to be a mentality sometimes of "There's a new version, panic, will I be ready" when in fact there is no rush to update your sites. In fact it actually makes more sense in my opinion to buy the software, get used to it, play with it, skin it to death, get used to developing on it, test upgrades with each version release. This way by the time you do decide to make the switch your fully happy with the move your making.

[oldz442]

Skip to vB7 please... I like that number better.

[soniceffect]

That said scott there is no rush for anyone to move to vb5 and it takes planning and time. This is where i am saying the panic element in people is IMO wrong. And this is for successful ones. The ones who fail are the onee who rush and get it wrong not the ones who stay on a tested platform till they are 100% happy.

Look at it this way, if people are sticking their head in the past and saying it will be a year or so till vb5 is ready for their site, then why not just wait till its ready for their site? I have a licence myself to play with and mod with however i know myself until its 101% ready for me i will not move my site over.

And im not in the sand btw. I see IB make some majorly stupid f ups at times. However i feel the sense of annoyance at themselves when it happens these days rather than the "trying to justify" of old. That to me is a step forward. Maybe not as far as we would like but to me it feels like they are "gettin it".

[beishe8]

And im not in the sand btw. I see IB make some majorly stupid f ups at times. However i feel the sense of annoyance at themselves when it happens these days rather than the "trying to justify" of old. That to me is a step forward. Maybe not as far as we would like but to me it feels like they are "gettin it".

They are getting nothing. Getting worse.
Look at the software. Is it better than vB4?
Look at the new rules about transfers of licences. Is it better then it was under vB4?

Look at their website where they sell vB5. Is it better than it was under vB 4? It's much better,more sophisticated.
Is it telling the truth about vB5's current state?

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[soniceffect]

They are getting nothing. Getting worse.
Look at the software. Is it better than vB4?
Look at the new rules about transfers of licences. Is it better then it was under vB4?

Look at their website where they sell vB5. Is it better than it was under vB 4? It's much better,more sophisticated.
Is it telling the truth about vB5's current state?

https://www.vbulletin.com/

Buy it,buy it,buy it...

Im not gonna go down that road. Im not talking about the licences, the website, the selling structure or any of that. Because to be quite honest its not something Im particularly interested in. For the record however I don't agree with some of the licence changes, however it doesnt affect me because I dont transfer, Im not changing domains etc etc so Im not really bothered. The new website I think looks excellent however I personally dont feel it should be on sale yet, however thats a company decision and again it doesnt really affect anything Im doing at present so I have no reason to really shout about it.

Im talking purely about the software. I am looking at the software, and is it better than vb4? Once the bugs are out of it and the performance improves then in my opinion yes, it is. Maybe not everyone thinks so but I certainly do and Im not the only one who thinks so either.

[beishe8]

Im not the only one who thinks so either.

It's true.

[In Omnibus]

It seems some would have preferred vB5 be released as a Gold release a year from now, sight unseen, without any concept of the monumental changes to the core of the product, and without any discounts. I could see an argument if IB had immediately declared End Of Life on vB4 upon the release. The only argument is that vB5 is not yet ready for production sites, which isn't actually an argument. Those, like myself, who have purchased vB5 are able to not only get a jump on the software for our own use but also able to help the development team complete the product in a more timely manner than would have been done had the product been left unreleased. The volume of complaints about a product this far removed from vB4 would have well surpassed the volume of complaints now being received about how some do not care to pay for a beta while others paid for the beta and are "disappointed" in how it is not yet a completed product ready for production sites. There are options. No one is under duress to purchase the beta. The best IB can hope for is to please some of the people some of the time, or with any luck, most of the people most of the time, but, quite frankly they should ignore these baseless complaints. There is no sense in arguing for argument's sake.