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The gap between my needs and perceived direction of your development

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  • The gap between my needs and perceived direction of your development

    I'm running a large forum (8+ million posts) based on vbulletin. I've started few years ago and vb let me build my community and grow it. I've started with version 3.x (don't recall exactly which one, sorry). Then came vb4 with it's promise of being modern and a host of problems it caused - mainly performance related. It's really hard to configure out of the box for large traffic and the sheer number of requests caused a lot of problems after the upgrade. It took us some time and we got it under control with tremendous help from digitalpoint (a constantly updated list of patches to the script and the only working search solution - the sphinx search). VB4 is getting old fairly quick. The web went far ahead - html5, grid and then responsive design etc. The features I thought were promised (like better blogs, better search, complete functionality in mobile skin/app etc) never really materialized. Blogs are a laugh. Social groups are not even available on mobiles even though they are being used by my users. I was looking for vb5 with hope that it is being planned for sites like mine - who started with vb and got successful. Seems I may be wrong...

    I know you guys are optimizing the script for performance now, but I'm afraid it might still be worse than vb4. It seems that there's a long delay caused by a javascript redraw after the site is loaded. What if we add the ads that require additional load time to a much more complcated webpage (we have many more forums on our homepage)? Will the redraw time increase? I'm willing to bet that it does. Also - Sphinx search will not be available even though ip.board - your competitor includes it out of the box, and you just have to know that this is the only working solution for large boards. I really need to know how are you going to solve the problem of searches on boards with more than 6 million posts... And we all know you have tried the sphinx search - there's this half-baked extension which was made available and never really updated.

    To sum it all up - I'm torn. After my first visit to vb5 test site I have totally panicked. This is not what I was waiting for. I hoped for vb4 but with better (easier and more html5 standards compliant) skinning, faster performance and maybe new features. A script that would give my users and me what we really need NOW. You seem to require a gamble on my part that I'm not sure I'm ready to take. Currently I'm checking all competitors and I don't think I will upgrade.

  • Deimos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    Anyway, doesn't really matter what I say. All you want to do is bash the company, product and people.
    When a company releases a product touted as the "Most powerful in the world" and the "premier platform to build on" and it's an inferior product compared to most, if not all products out there like it, then hell yes I'm going to bash it.

    I'm sorry, but it's frustrating having used VB for 10-11 years, only for it to be dumped into the state it's in, ever since IB took over and changed things around.

    If you don't want people bashing the product, then perhaps IB shouldn't be releasing such inferior, poorly made products and claiming them to be the best, it's insulting not only to the VB brand, but to customers who've used and recommended VB for so long.

    And yes, I did recommend VB4, when it reached 4.2, but will no longer do so, given that the same mistakes, if not more, are being made with VB5.

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  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Products should have an anticipated 18 - 24 month life cycle. That is all I know.

    Leave a comment:


  • slinky
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    Actually it was forked from vBulletin 4.1.5. vBulletin 4.1.5 was released on July 11th, 2011. So it hasn't been two years of actual development. Before that there would have been planning for wireframes, migration, etc...

    However like I said, it was intended to be a 100% rewrite, the post would be more problematic but it wasn't intended to be so. Maybe 5.1 or 5.2 but not 5.0.

    Anyway, doesn't really matter what I say. All you want to do is bash the company, product and people.
    I haven't seen him bash the people at all. With regard to the product and the company, it is what it is. The company started working on it's next product when vBulletin was only at VB 4.1.5. That's practically right out of the starting gate. Why is that?

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  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by Deimos View Post
    Something that probably should've been done before releasing any form of beta, let alone putting it up for sale.
    It's been a work in progress for presumably 2+ years, in all that time, very little seems to have been done and given the review linked above and various comments from professional coders here and elsewhere, it seems those 2 years have been a bit of a waste, to put it mildly.
    Actually it was forked from vBulletin 4.1.5. vBulletin 4.1.5 was released on July 11th, 2011. So it hasn't been two years of actual development. Before that there would have been planning for wireframes, migration, etc...

    However like I said, it was intended to be a 100% rewrite, the post would be more problematic but it wasn't intended to be so. Maybe 5.1 or 5.2 but not 5.0.

    Anyway, doesn't really matter what I say. All you want to do is bash the company, product and people.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deimos
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    The link would be more condemning if we ever said vBulletin 5 was a complete rewrite. It isn't and a lot of legacy code is maintained to maintain legacy structures. As more is rewritten more legacy code will be updated and other structures updated.
    Something that probably should've been done before releasing any form of beta, let alone putting it up for sale.
    It's been a work in progress for presumably 2+ years, in all that time, very little seems to have been done and given the review linked above and various comments from professional coders here and elsewhere, it seems those 2 years have been a bit of a waste, to put it mildly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by Deimos View Post
    Yea, but is anyone really surprised? I mean really?
    The link would be more condemning if we ever said vBulletin 5 was a complete rewrite. It isn't and a lot of legacy code is maintained to maintain legacy structures. As more is rewritten more legacy code will be updated and other structures updated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deimos
    replied
    Yea, but is anyone really surprised? I mean really?

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  • janslu
    replied
    Thanks for the link. Doesn't make me any happier...

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  • g00gl3r
    replied
    This? - http://adminextra.com/threads/connec...e-4#post-52885

    Leave a comment:


  • Lizard King
    replied
    Originally posted by s.molinari View Post
    Do you mean rafio's post? Very sad indeed.

    Scott
    Yes , i still can't believe how things ended regarding vBulletin 5. I have mix feelings . I am happy that i left vBSEO because i don't have to code anything for a disaster project like this. However i am sad because an amazing product we all admired vBulletin is slowly dying each other day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lizard King
    replied
    Scott just read the code review on Adminextra , you'll be more surprised.

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  • janslu
    replied
    @Zachery - my sincere thank you for reading and responding even though my topic has wandered into devs personals. It wasn't my intention. I just want to reiterate - please remember about existing, successful communities without big expense budgets. We need to upgrade primarily for new frontends - html5, less nesting, css sprites instead of multiple static requests etc. But we also need to have our sites working better or more or less equal than vb4 on the same hardware. Our users like what we currently have - they just want to have a nicer and faster website. Therefore the prime metrics I will use when deciding whether to upgrade are:
    - server load (including search!),
    - page load time (this delayed redraw is a little scary),
    - enhancements for current features - like blogs (they are horrible in vb4) and social groups (they need some polish and need to be available on mobiles)
    - upgrades for popular mods - like vbseo, but these should be coming if you will make a popular product,
    - lastly - new features

    I really hope you guys will deliver. But if not - than I'm in for some really tough decisions...

    Leave a comment:


  • Zachery
    replied
    I actually honestly don't know who did the CMS development during the alpha/beta project.

    Anyway, as for Zoltan, he is doing vB5 dev work.

    Leave a comment:


  • rexxxy
    replied
    They don't want to say which developer is working on vb5 cms. Maybe Edwin is working on it again?

    Talking about search what happen to Zoltan search for VB4 that he was testing out on IB Site/Sites?

    Leave a comment:

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