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  • VB4 old news. VB5 and why energy should focus on this

    I'd like to know why you all are not satisfied with vb5. The only thing I cannot understand is why there are limited styles and information regarding it.

    Other then this aspect. And it is because the software is new,

    There is no reason why this community cannot appreciate it. I am having a hard time finding mods and this is the only thing I have to complain about. I mean the style editor is just as advanced as vb4 and vb4 in my opinion isn't good at all.

    I'd like to point out what I don't like about vb4 and what I do like about vb5.

    VB4

    - Too clumped.

    - difficult to see text

    - not as content based

    - feels separated on the page

    - unprofessional on a business aspect

    - hard to get involved on a "personal" aspect/ less involving due to layout structure

    - Too embellished and bold

    VB 5

    - Organized

    - Many options the same as vb4 (aside from several options such as referrals)

    - professional look and feel

    - a number of options that make up for any "small" lacking you may see. And it's smaller then most exaggerate it to be

    - Easy edits

    - Quicker functionality

    - Site builder

    - More SEO friendly then vb4 (not sure about all the specs on this but I can guarentee "at the least" more then vb4)

    - And especially lots of focus on content based organization


    Now here is what I'd like to see happen. First I want to say to the staff. You have done a great job, which can only get better. But you need to stop working on vb4. Yes I said it. VB4 needs to be old news. A lot of customers are wanting to see more focus on your recent productions.

    Here is what I'd like to see come to VB5:

    - Referral option
    - More mods, more styles, and more people taking the time to code them
    - More SEO friendly options such as plugins
    - More tutorials added to the database on how to use it
    - Documentation on the specifics on how to get the most out of the software
    - Faster page load times
    - More add-ons to the site builder. Such as having to save before exiting and not being able to click outside until option is selected
    - More options to choose from for the staff and administration

    Personally, what I am trying to say and I am speaking to both the staff here and other customers. We need to see more from vb5 and I wish you would focus your time and energy on making this product better, regardless of the complaints. You have a chance to make this a much greater product and I hope you do so.

    Post comments below.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Easy to say when you just recently bought the product. What you said is already happening. They don't work on vB4 even though they told up they would finish it with a 4.3. And they may not finish vB5 when they go to vB6.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Super Cat View Post
      Easy to say when you just recently bought the product. What you said is already happening. They don't work on vB4 even though they told up they would finish it with a 4.3. And they may not finish vB5 when they go to vB6.
      I did just recently buy the product. I'd like to see more work done on it. I want them to put vb6 a long way off and give the customers more to be satisfied with.
      Last edited by Brad Padgett; Mon 20th Oct '14, 6:02pm.

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      • #4
        Did you check the popular issues tab in JIRA already? Maybe you want to vote for some of these.
        http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/...arissues-panel

        Comment


        • jdj
          jdj commented
          Editing a comment
          Interesting to see that the calendar is there in the list of popular issues. I haven't got a big problem with vB5 other than the absence of the calendar.

      • #5
        Originally posted by TheXboxCloud View Post
        And it is because the software is new,
        VB4

        [It has a calendar]

        VB 5

        - Many options the same as vb4 (aside from several options such as referrals) [except that it doesn't have a calendar]
        The fact that it is new isn't that relevant. I don't dislike vB5, I can see good aspects to it; but if you'd started in vB3 and were dependent upon some of the mods, or were using vB4 and were using features that aren't in vB5 then you wouldn't be as positive about it. For those people running vB3 or vB4 and looking at vB5 they face a considerable amount of effort to upgrade and have to weigh up the benefits of upgrading versus staying with what they've got.

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        • #6
          Originally posted by jdj View Post

          The fact that it is new isn't that relevant. I don't dislike vB5, I can see good aspects to it; but if you'd started in vB3 and were dependent upon some of the mods, or were using vB4 and were using features that aren't in vB5 then you wouldn't be as positive about it. For those people running vB3 or vB4 and looking at vB5 they face a considerable amount of effort to upgrade and have to weigh up the benefits of upgrading versus staying with what they've got.
          Major version upgrades will always disrupt modified and customized sites.

          When vB3 was launched, it meant the re-coding of every modification and style from vB2.
          then when 3.5 came out and the plug in system was introduced, there was major upheaval again.

          When vB4 came out, no styles would work and most plugins required substantial rewriting to make them work.

          That's the nature of major version upgrades - stuff breaks, stuff changes.

          One of the mindsets that people generally need to get out of is "I must have the latest version right now".
          This is true of almost everything....the number of times I ask people why they want to upgrade (wther it's vBulletin or something else) and the response is "because I want the latest version". That isn't really a valid reason when you're running a website, particularly not a commercial one. That's why you get so many companies still running old versions of Windows. Stuff breaks, and immediate and desperate upgrading is not going to bring any benefits.

          When I upgraded my site from vB3 to vB4, it took me six months of work (admittedly part time) to get everything converted and running how I wanted it.

          Sites that rush out and dump a brand new version on their members overnight without any planning, consideration or consultation, are going to quickly kill their communities off.

          In short - if your community vitally and crucially depends on a calendar - well vB5 doesn't have a calendar. So why would you even consider upgrading?
          MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

          TalkNewsUK - My vBulletin 5.5.2 Demo
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          • #7
            Originally posted by Mark.B View Post

            Sites that rush out and dump a brand new version on their members overnight without any planning, consideration or consultation, are going to quickly kill their communities off.

            In short - if your community vitally and crucially depends on a calendar - well vB5 doesn't have a calendar. So why would you even consider upgrading?
            There's the dilemma: If you upgrade in a rush of enthusiam only to find that your users can't use the site and your administrators can't administer it because they don't know where the bugs are then you could easily destroy months or years of work.

            There may be improvements in vB5 over vB4. The truth is, if it had the calendar in it, now that the CMS is here, I would have upgraded by now. Although having got my fingers burnt when I upgraded from vB3.x to vB4.x I wouldn't have done it immediately; I would have done what I'm doing now...tried it out to find out where all the bugs are so that we can work it.

            This thread is about why vB is still working on other vB versions. I don't have a xenforo installation, although I've looked at it to see if it has a CMS/calendar/blogs available as addons. Recently I was on a xenforo site for totally unrelated reasons, searching for an answer to a technical question on scripting. My impression of xenforo is that it is much better than vB3, although of course I wouldn't know because I haven't tried it.

            One of the other software programs I run comes from a company that uses Joomla for CMS and blogs but uses vB4 for their customer forum. I suspect that xenforo is a better product than vB4 on its own without blogs or CMS but in terms of what's "best" for any particular user, to a certain extent the product that you are familiar with has an advantage because you don't have to spend as much time getting used to it or keeping it working. So what's "best" doesn't just depend on the technical benefits of the forum.

            But when it comes to vB4 and the upgrade to vB5, when the calendar is on the list of popular things that people are requesting, I just don't get why vB/IB doesn't recognise that this is one of the things that differentiates its product from others that might be better and all see the potential for growth in it. Not recognising that seems to me to be exceptionally short-sighted.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by jdj View Post
              This thread is about why vB is still working on other vB versions.
              We're not, as such. Currently vB3 and vB4 are only receiving php compatibility updates.

              Originally posted by jdj View Post
              But when it comes to vB4 and the upgrade to vB5, when the calendar is on the list of popular things that people are requesting,
              This is not the case. Very few people are requesting a calendar. Very few people used it when it was in vB3, and vB4.
              MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

              TalkNewsUK - My vBulletin 5.5.2 Demo
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              • #9
                Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                We're not, as such. Currently vB3 and vB4 are only receiving php compatibility updates.


                This is not the case. Very few people are requesting a calendar. Very few people used it when it was in vB3, and vB4.
                It's on the list of populars previously posted in this thread by TLMD. What TLMD said was:

                "Did you check the popular issues tab in JIRA already? Maybe you want to vote for some of these.
                http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/...arissues-panel"

                ..and if vB3 and vB4 are currently receiving php compatibility updates then you're working on them. I'm not surprised because if IB/VB was dependent upon the number of people that had installed and were running vB5 at present it wouldn't have a viable product or a business. A lot of people struggled with vB4, many of those using vB3 will struggle to upgrade because they'll be using mods from vBulletin.org for which there is no replacement (as we found when we upgraded to vB4 and couldn't use one of the mods we were working on when we were running vB3).

                PS: I've already said on this thread why I think the calendar might not have been as well used as it might have been in vB3. But it is one of the things that differentiates vB from its competitors and one of the features with the greatest potential. The absence of the calendar from vB5 is now my only real problem with it.
                Last edited by jdj; Tue 21st Oct '14, 5:58am.

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                • #10
                  Originally posted by jdj View Post

                  It's on the list of populars previously posted in this thread by TLMD.
                  In regards to the calendar, it has moved up and that improves its chances of being implemented. It is something we do want to add. It just requires getting it worked into a release along with everything else entailed into a release. As a big project, it will need quite a bit of time dedicated to it. We have been working on adding things from the popular issues list. Including things like User Mentions which had more votes than Calendar when it was added to a release.
                  Translations provided by Google.

                  Wayne Luke
                  The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
                  vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
                  vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                  I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

                  Comment


                  • jdj
                    jdj commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you for the update: My concern with the calendar is not just that it's something that we want (because we use it) but because it's also something that has a lot of potential because of a large unmet need that's out there and because it differentiates vBulletin from its competitors. I think perhaps someone either at IB or a vB may have overlooked it because in the past when you were using vB3 you'd be looking at the obvious features and you'd see in one of the less obvious menus (was it "Community? I can't remember) and say to yourself, "....oh look, there's also a calendar in there." It was almost an afterthought...more of a diary and it's not surprising that many people didn't use it. Because we found a way to highlight it with the NavBar when that came along in vB4 we find it very easy to keep populated. So it's future potential is completely unrelated to whatever anybody did with it in vB3, or early versions of vB4. More on why here.

                    http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...t-it-all-wrong

                • #11
                  To put my 2 cents in......Im new to VB....so I am always messing something up, but the tech on and off this forum have been fantastic. One thing I would like to see is more tutorials on vb5 there seems to be so much info out there on vb4 and before. Alsonne other thing is to make it more phone oriented. A high number of my members use their iphones....forum runner is a mess.. i know its a third party ...put people didnt have any problem getting tapatalk in vb4 or earlier. I did get the latest version of VB because newest must be the best but there always seem to be bugs in any new software especially if you are upgrading. The more i get used to vb5 the more i like it. What a great upgrade from phpBB3!!But keep in mind we can all find things wrong or that we would like things done a little different in any software. Everyone wants a different or special whistle for their site.

                  Comment


                  • Replicant
                    Replicant commented
                    Editing a comment
                    All of my IPhone/IPad users installed Chrome browser and solved the majority of their problems. Safari doesn't do responsive well as I found out. Forum runner is "awkward" and I just plain don't like tapatalk, but my users do so I have it installed.

                  • jdj
                    jdj commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Tech support at vB is good, and very polite. A calendar isn't really a whistle...it's a very basic need and it was present in both vB3 and vB4. I'm not expecting perfection from vB5...I know there'll be bugs in it and as long as I know where they are and can work around them I can live with that. The truth is that if the calendar was in there I'd be saying positive things about vB5 now, despite the bugs.

                  • jdj
                    jdj commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That's interesting. My test site is running 5.1.3 and there is no problem at all with it displaying on an ipad. Before the option to change the width in the stylevars came along (with 5.1.3) I was using the custom.css template to alter the maximum width of the site. The first time I tried that the site wouldn't display on my ipad but then I reduced the maximum width before progressively increasing it I eventually got it display. No problems with displaying on safari since 5.1.3 came along.
                    Last edited by jdj; Thu 23rd Oct '14, 3:10am.

                • #12
                  While I have no clue at all what the OP was talking about as it feels like he got everything 180 degree in the wrong direction, I do feel that 5.1.4 is probably a good time to test the software. I will put a very low expectation for it, neither I am expecting much from it either. But if it can be at least as stable as the free scripts out there, then it is an improvement. One problem though, is vB5 documentation extensive? Since my free 30 days support tickets has long been gone without me ever using it, where can I seek help with a reasonable waiting time (not 24+ hours)? I'm sure as hell would not pay extra $ for it.

                  Comment


                  • jdj
                    jdj commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I don't mind paying for support *IF* the product works and I can do what I want with it. My only problem with it at present is that there's no calendar and that's only a problem because the calendar is one of the things we find easy to keep populated. Not surprising really because events are going on everywhere in every community.http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...t-it-all-wrong

                • #13
                  Thank you guys for posting your thoughts on this matter.

                  Originally posted by durruti View Post
                  While I have no clue at all what the OP was talking about as it feels like he got everything 180 degree in the wrong direction, I do feel that 5.1.4 is probably a good time to test the software. I will put a very low expectation for it, neither I am expecting much from it either. But if it can be at least as stable as the free scripts out there, then it is an improvement. One problem though, is vB5 documentation extensive? Since my free 30 days support tickets has long been gone without me ever using it, where can I seek help with a reasonable waiting time (not 24+ hours)? I'm sure as hell would not pay extra $ for it.
                  I agree with you that there should be more documentation. Something for us all to sit down and study. I also believe it would differ from as many help questions, some going unanswered.

                  Though forum support is worth it to me as a customer. While ticket support is always the best way to go.

                  The most important part of my membership is the vb community. I am fixing to be a college student so forum support and other helpful members has always been worth it to me.

                  I am looking forward to this next release. I went to the test site to see how well they actually did. I noticed the 3 column layout is perfect for a homepage, as they had made it so.

                  While considering that my forum is designed for a user based news submission, guides, and reviews, this had came to my attention to actually be something worthy of giving vb5 at least a little more credit and bring it more of a reputation.

                  I guess what I'm trying to say is, it needs work. And I agree with many of you, that it's not perfect. I'm glad to hear Mark say that they are focusing all their time on this one product. That makes myself as a customer very happy.

                  And I believe that work is going to happen. I'm looking forward to it. As I am looking forward to learning with you all. Thank you.


                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Speaking as a customer now, I'm pleased with the progress on vB5 and the product has come a long way now. Many people just criticise it based on what it was, not what it now is.

                    I'd like to see more performance improvements now, although there are improvements in each release. 5.1.4 makes some improvements to Site Builder which improves performance for all users.

                    I do a lot of paid vBulletin installs. Almost everyone goes for vB5 - and yes they are asked first - and almost everyone is very pleased with the results. So I am confident in vB5's future.

                    And the vB Cloud platform is fantastic. I wish it'd been around 12 years ago when I started my own forum. I was on my own and hadn't a clue what I was doing back then.
                    MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

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                    • #15
                      Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                      Many people just criticise it based on what it was, not what it now is.
                      What it was doesn't bother me; I sometimes think the problem with it is that people keep calling it a forum. With vB4 we were using the CMS for news and jobs, and we found we could keep the calendar populated very easily. So for us it became more of a media publishing facility than a "forum". We couldn't upgrade because we were using the CMS. We had also learned from the vB3/vB4 upgrade that the early version would be full of bugs and the documentation might be sparse. The calendar was one of the things we found easy to keep populated.....

                      So we think vB are missing something which is more to do with what vB could be than what it was and could make it a lot better than "what it now is"....

                      Five minutes ago somebody just invited me to an event on Facebook....

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