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Will the database convert to "utf-8" after upgrade to VB5 ?

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  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    And you have an urgent need to convert to UTF-8 because? You have a lot of double-byte language use on your site?

    Also remember that a UTF-8 database could be 2-3 times as large as your current one.

    Leave a comment:


  • manebe
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    We don't recommend ever changing the encoding of an active database. It can cause problems. Merjawy's example is the exception, not the rule.

    You can attempt to follow his example but we will not certify the outcome.

    Should I keep database on latin-1 and board on UTF-8 ?

    That is not ideal as we all know, could cause issue with special charcaters rendering.

    Let me remember that my database is not so old,
    it has been created 1 year ago in a fresh installation of vB 4 !

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by manebe View Post
    My database is on latin1-
    Which is not equal to ISO-8859-1. ISO-8859-1 is the encoding predominantly for English. Latin1 is a lot more than English.

    I am asking vBulletin how do I upgrade my forum form vB4.2 to vB5 being my database on latin1- ?
    Shoul I convert my database to UTF-8 before upgrading ?
    We don't recommend ever changing the encoding of an active database. It can cause problems. Merjawy's example is the exception, not the rule.

    You can attempt to follow his example but we will not certify the outcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • manebe
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    However we don't support converting older databases because it doesn't work for everyone.
    Not really a good news for us managing boards other than english languages.

    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    For MySQL databases, there is no such thing as ISO-8859-1 Encoding.
    My database is on latin1-

    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    You might want to re-read my post in this thread...
    Wayne, you look like a great guy and you are used to give well detailed answers.
    Please just let me say that my question still keeps unanswered.

    I am asking vBulletin how do I upgrade my forum form vB4.2 to vB5 being my database on latin1- ?
    Should I convert my database to UTF-8 before upgrading ?

    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    Ideally it should match MySQL's character set. So if you're using a Latin1 database, it should be ISO-8859-1. If you're using UTF8 then it should be UTF-8.
    Thanks
    Last edited by manebe; Mon 17th Sep '12, 8:06am.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by manebe View Post
    Any official answer on this issue ?
    You might want to re-read my post in this thread...

    However we don't support converting older databases because it doesn't work for everyone.

    For MySQL databases, there is no such thing as ISO-8859-1 Encoding.

    Leave a comment:


  • manebe
    replied
    Originally posted by Merjawy View Post
    One of my sites vB4, uses UTF-8 (charset and database) and each time I upgrade I create a new database and convert collation to UTF-8 before I restore.
    I restore the database and make sure all is ok, then I upgrade...And I uncomment the UTF-8 line in my config.php... I never had any issues.
    Merjawy, thanks for the answer.

    Any official answer on this issue ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Merjawy
    replied
    One of my sites vB4, uses UTF-8 (charset and database) and each time I upgrade I create a new database and convert collation to UTF-8 before I restore.
    I restore the database and make sure all is ok, then I upgrade...And I uncomment the UTF-8 line in my config.php... I never had any issues.

    Leave a comment:


  • manebe
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
    Ideally it should match MySQL's character set. So if you're using a Latin1 database, it should be ISO-8859-1. If you're using UTF8 then it should be UTF-8.
    Wayne,

    That is exactly the problem for those who need special characters.

    Upgrading to vB5 the database remains on ISO-8859-1, whilst page encoding will change to UTF-8.
    That is not ideal, as you said.

    How do we solve this, should we convert database from ISO to UTF-8 before upgrading?

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    There is a little confusion about databases and UTF-8...

    1. MySQL 4.1 and higher can store data as UTF-8. This is based on the Character Set defined. Character set determines how the data is presented in queries. Collation determines the sort order of characters. Many MySQL Servers default to Latin1 though in newer versions of MySQL that was changed to UTF-8. Newer installs of MySQL should use UTF-8.
    2. vBulletin 3 and 4 can talk to MySQL in UTF-8 as long as you're using the MySQLi classes provided.
    3. The character encoding of the HTML output has nothing to do with MySQL and how it stores data. It tells the browsers how to interpret the characters and display them. Ideally it should match MySQL's character set. So if you're using a Latin1 database, it should be ISO-8859-1. If you're using UTF8 then it should be UTF-8.


    The issue with vBulletin and UTF-8 lies a lot in the programming and how to interpret characters and years of use. Some characters have to be interpreted by ICONV and are turned into HTML entities. Others are passed through. There are also some PHP Functions that don't take UTF-8 into account. This is why when people try to convert to UTF-8 they get problems with characters. These are often problems we cannot solve. It is only a real problem in older forums and when you move servers. When you move servers, the character set can cause problems due to interpretation. Especially if they do not match character sets on both servers.

    On new installs with the MySQL character set to UTF8 and the collation set to utf_general_ci or one of the other UTF8 collations, using MySQLi and telling vBulletin to speak in UTF-8 in the /core/config.php file then there will be very few problems in the system. Same for vBulletin 3 and vBulletin 4. Searching on the other hand brings a new set of issues with certain languages, predominantly Asian, which don't have stop characters like Middle Eastern and European languages. This is on new systems.

    On old systems, the issue is converting data stored as HTML entities back into actual characters during conversion. Or dealing with sites that have multiple languages and specify different character encodings for the language. The same entity can be different characters under different HTML encodings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marco Mamdouh
    replied
    Originally posted by sadiq6210 View Post
    So the database for this forum will remaining the same after upgrade to VB5? "iso-8859-1"
    vBulletin upgrader doesn't convert your database during the upgrade, It's only changing the required tables and fields and not the database collation or character set.

    Leave a comment:


  • manebe
    replied
    Originally posted by sadiq6210 View Post
    So the database for this forum will remaining the same after upgrade to VB5?
    Originally posted by sadiq6210 View Post
    "iso-8859-1"


    Because of that I asked this question
    I wish it will not cause any issue with special characters

    Also, it will be great if vbulletin can provide a tool to convert the database to utf-8


    Any update about this question?

    Different encoding (database and board), thread IDs being changed, no styles and plugin compatibility

    Not so easy to upgrade from vB4 to vB5

    Leave a comment:


  • sadiq6210
    replied
    So the database for this forum will remaining the same after upgrade to VB5? "iso-8859-1"

    Originally posted by manebe View Post
    I heard it could cause some issue with special characters, isn't it ?
    Because of that I asked this question
    I wish it will not cause any issue with special characters

    Also, it will be great if vbulletin can provide a tool to convert the database to utf-8

    Leave a comment:


  • manebe
    replied
    Database staying on ISO-8859-1 and the whole board on UTF-8,

    I heard it could cause some issue with special characters, isn't it ?

    Leave a comment:


  • iCafe
    replied
    Originally posted by sadiq6210 View Post
    I noticed VB5 is using "utf-8"
    Originally posted by sadiq6210 View Post
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...alidator%2F1.3


    But this forum is using "iso-8859-1"
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ww...alidator%2F1.3


    My question is
    When you upgrade this forum (vbulletin.com/forum) to VB5, will the database convert automatically during the upgrading from "iso-8859-1" to "utf-8" ?


    it encoding of HTML Character Set not Character Set of database

    Leave a comment:


  • Hartmut
    replied
    Originally posted by sadiq6210 View Post
    When you upgrade this forum (vbulletin.com/forum) to VB5, will the database convert automatically during the upgrading from "iso-8859-1" to "utf-8" ?
    No, it doesn't.

    Leave a comment:

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