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  • #61
    just found out that the javascript would pretty much become a necessity for basic functioning of vb5. and well i am in the camp that browse a lot with javascript disabled. that is my easy way to surf the web 90% of the times. because it is faster, it blocks 95% of the ads that clutter the web. and i can safely say that 90% of the web is still usable with javascript disabled. even gmail has a version that works without any need for javascript. twitter can be used through their mobile.twitter.com edition. i would be seriously frustrated if my own forum stops working for me if i have javascript disabled in my browser.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by feldon23 View Post
      I personally believe AJAX-centric websites are a fad that will die out like Flash splash/intro pages and Flash navigation bars.
      Think again. As web moves forward, browser will be regarded as thick client more and more.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Riasat View Post
        Think again. As web moves forward, browser will be regarded as thick client more and more.
        ... and that has what to do with an overabundance of Ajax?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Zachery View Post
          The internet in 2012 is very much a dhtml/ajax/javascript world. Most popular applications online no longer have any level of non js fallback. It has nothing to do with the level of experience developers have.
          The Internet in 2012 is very much used by visually impaired users, indexed by crawlers, used from legacy devices such as integrated browsers in applications (the first and last is the case with our community). It is also a responsive Internet, in other words good design responds to the medium, the display, and its capabilities. That means, simply said, that good design doesn't stoop all the way down into the dark gory pit that is IE6 but also doesn't cut off at 2010s technology.

          As others have pointed out, it's not just about privileged, able-bodied, American users. A forum like the National Water forum in Uganda is used by tens of thousands of Ugandans on legacy devices that do not support some of the technologies you make mandatory.

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          • #65
            If that is the case, please continue using the old software that does support those technologies. We have to make cutoffs in outdated technologies.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Zachery View Post
              We have to make cutoffs in outdated technologies.
              Could you clarify what technologies you're referring to?

              I think I am finally getting it. You're trying to raise the bar for competitors. vB 5 - the community software with the most demanding soft- and hardware requirements. Lawrence could add this to the list of features.

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              • #67
                Ha ha. Trainee Comedian.

                Dont give up the day job just yet.
                Baby, I was born this way

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                • #68
                  ub tell em sheriff
                  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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                  • #69
                    I really don't see why people who require sites that operate without javascript just continue to use 4.2? Would it help if they named v4.2 to v5^0.89166814966 or something?


                    Originally posted by Stallyon View Post
                    The place I work for still uses Internet Explorer 6
                    Someone needs to be fired over that... Do your computers look like this: http://smallbusinessexpert.com.au/wp...d-computer.jpg

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                    • #70
                      discussion on this thread tells me some governments have to take initiative to enforce accessibility related regulations on the web at least on companies that are operating in their jurisdiction.

                      because people do not seem to look at the bigger picture. the web is not only for able bodied people with the latest technology at their disposal. ignoring them does not solve the problem. cannot believe we are being mocked for asking for a more accessible product.

                      just because the technology allows you to make something flashy does not mean you have to take that route. i wonder how many people here hated Adobe Flash only websites.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by lukerobi View Post
                        I really don't see why people who require sites that operate without javascript just continue to use 4.2? Would it help if they named v4.2 to v5^0.89166814966 or something?




                        Someone needs to be fired over that... Do your computers look like this: http://smallbusinessexpert.com.au/wp...d-computer.jpg
                        Much more people than you think don't have access to javascript/AJAX at work :/
                        There should be some kind off fallback mechanism for those people imo.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Sushubh View Post
                          the web is not only for able bodied people with the latest technology at their disposal. ignoring them does not solve the problem. cannot believe we are being mocked for asking for a more accessible product.
                          THIS. IB and the IB employees commenting here essentially gave a big ol' "up yours" to:

                          • visually impaired users
                          • users in low income situations such as the users perusing a vB install to discuss housing and job searches from libraries where JS is usually disabled
                          • users in countries with less technological availability such as the users perusing my site from Kenya, the DRC, and Somalia
                          • users who just don't want to run JavaScript


                          To essentially mock anyone who isn't running around like a kid in a 2012 candy store and starts thinking about how they can JS-ify everything, even if it doesn't need​ to be changed... that's disingenuous.

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                          • #73
                            I'm sure they're all well aware of the side effects that relying on so much JS has.

                            Like it failing to meet certain usability/accessability standards for governments across the world so they won't be able to use the software, and excluding sites for people who are visually impaired also who won't be able to use it.

                            It's their software, and they made the decision to exclude those segments of the market for whatever reason. Let them bear the fruits of those labors and live and learn.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_acc..._accessibility

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sushubh View Post
                              discussion on this thread tells me some governments have to take initiative to enforce accessibility related regulations on the web at least on companies that are operating in their jurisdiction.

                              because people do not seem to look at the bigger picture. the web is not only for able bodied people with the latest technology at their disposal. ignoring them does not solve the problem. cannot believe we are being mocked for asking for a more accessible product.

                              just because the technology allows you to make something flashy does not mean you have to take that route. i wonder how many people here hated Adobe Flash only websites.
                              Originally posted by OhioDave View Post
                              I'm sure they're all well aware of the side effects that relying on so much JS has.

                              Like it failing to meet certain usability/accessability standards for governments across the world so they won't be able to use the software, and excluding sites for people who are visually impaired also who won't be able to use it.

                              It's their software, and they made the decision to exclude those segments of the market for whatever reason. Let them bear the fruits of those labors and live and learn.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_acc..._accessibility
                              I think there is way too much government regulation. And I laugh at initiatives like the EU requiring websites to provide a message that they uses cookies. Um... every website uses cookies. Next they'll require websites to announce that they use HTML, colors, letters and numbers.

                              However I wouldn't be against some kind of labeling on the Accessibility of software. vBulletin 5 would get a D-. vBulletin 5 is completely unusable with any kind of screen reader software or other accessibility tools. Heck you can't even save a bookmark to a thread on a certain page, so it's really inaccessible to everyone on the planet not just the visually impaired.

                              Any company with visually impaired customers should avoid vBulletin 5.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Originally posted by feldon23 View Post
                              I personally believe AJAX-centric websites are a fad that will die out like Flash splash/intro pages and Flash navigation bars.
                              Originally posted by Riasat View Post
                              Think again. As web moves forward, browser will be regarded as thick client more and more.
                              8 years ago, Flash was the future of web development. Since then, Adobe has officially abandoned it for mobile development after failing to deliver a mature Android client despite years of effort and Apple wisely kicking them to the curb. Since mobile is the future, that means Flash is for all intents and purposes dead.

                              A programming buddy and I spent 6 months writing a 3rd party website in our free time. We did it almost entirely server-side with a minimum of AJAX. During that same time, a division of Sony produced an official website with the same purpose built on the same data API. They built an extremely thick client website based entirely on AJAX and Javascript. Not only is their website extremely slow, but it is missing a ton of the functionality that we built into our site. Our site gets something like 10 times the traffic of theirs.

                              I vigorously stand by my statement that thick client websites built on mountains of AJAX are a passing fad. We'll see 5 years from now who was right.
                              Last edited by feldon23; Tue 9 Oct '12, 7:31am.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by feldon23 View Post
                                A programming buddy and I spent 6 months writing a 3rd party website in our free time. We did it almost entirely server-side with a minimum of AJAX. During that same time, a division of Sony produced an official website with the same purpose built on the same data API. They built an extremely thick client website based entirely on AJAX and Javascript. Not only is their website extremely slow, but it is missing a ton of the functionality that we built into our site. Our site gets something like 10 times the traffic of theirs.

                                I vigorously stand by my statement that thick client websites built on mountains of AJAX are a passing fad. We'll see 5 years from now who was right.
                                I never said flash is the future or something. Personally, I hate flash.

                                Your example only proves they hired incompetent engineers.

                                You can stand by whatever you like. Browsers will be regarded as thick client more and more; whether you/I like it or not.

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