Unusable without Javascript

[querschlaeger]

Hi,

vBulletin 5 Connect is unusuble without Javascript activated in browser. I do not really expect that everything works (like the thread-filter and so on) but core feature like navigate through forum, threads and their pages should work without Javascript!

Example: How it is possible to navigate to page 2 without Javascript: http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/forum/main-forum

Or can someone give me a direct link to page 2?

Does this mean that Javascript-disabled search engines like Google can not index page 2 (or more) of a thread or forum?!?!

EDIT:

There is also a big difference when you load the homepage with and without javascript...

With javascript:



Without javascript:


- You can't see and navigate to forums!!!!!!!
- Announcements are not shown correctly

[rellect]

Google can index ajax content.

If you want to be sure that it works on vB5, you can subscribe to this report

http://tracker.vbulletin.com/browse/VBV-2722

[AlexanderT]

Google can index ajax content.

It's not that simple. Googlebot has the ability to execute specific Ajax for instance to read dynamic Facebook comments. But often Ajax is triggered by something that only a user can do. You can't seriously expect a search engine crawler to look at what a click would do on every button or object on your page in order to then see what Ajax calls were made. In other words, for content that is important to me, I wouldn't count on Google seeing it if Ajax is required.

[rellect]

It's not that simple. Googlebot has the ability to execute specific Ajax for instance to read dynamic Facebook comments. But often Ajax is triggered by something that only a user can do. You can't seriously expect a search engine crawler to look at what a click would do on every button or object on your page in order to then see what Ajax calls were made. In other words, for content that is important to me, I wouldn't count on Google seeing it if Ajax is required.

I believe site map can resolve this problem.

[Lizard King]

I believe site map can resolve this problem.

Not at all. Sitemap is a tool where you submit your page links to SE's . If SE's face slow loading time on your site , say by by to your rankings. Sitemap is just a tool where you allow Google to check your site's content. Rankings etc.. are calculated with way more specific algorithms .

[querschlaeger]

But where ist the link for page 2 (3, 4, ...) in forums?

You can add /page2 at thread URL but this doesn't work with the forum URL:

Thread:

Page 1: http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/for...b5-fail-or-win
Page 2: http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/for...l-or-win/page2

But without Javascript you can not reach page 2 of a forum:

Page 1: http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/forum/main-forum
Page 2(???): http://www.vbulletin.com/vb5demo/forum/main-forum/page2 <- does not work!

Another point:

How can I register without Javascript enabled?!

[alex2k5]

ajax/javascript - off

I know it's early, and I haven't checked out the back end yet. But, IMO, there needs to be a way to turn Javascript/Ajax off for everything other than drop down menus, etc. Nothing related to main page content should have javascript applied to it. Sidebar, menus, back end, fine. Main page content, tabs, etc - it needs an off switch, with ability to access all those tabs/pages/content with real urls and page re-loads. I don't trust it for SEO regardless of what anyone tells me, and for user experience across platforms and browsers, it will never be consistent.

I want to stay stuck in the past until the future is the past, then maybe I'll think about it.

As it is, just for that reason, I would not use this. If every other feature got rolled out, all bugs fixed, and it was gold, but this was still there and unable to be turned off, I would not run vb5 on live sites. I skipped 4 completely, if 5 doesn't shape up, I'll skip that. And since 3.x is probably gonna hit EOL with no security updates soon after 5 launches, I will have to look into another system.

Thanks.

[Wayne Luke]

There is no option. vBulletin 5 is a JSON and API driven application.

[alex2k5]

Good to know, thanks.

[rmwebs]

There is no option. vBulletin 5 is a JSON and API driven application.

So there is zero fall back in place? Well thats a smart move... great to know there are decent, experienced devs working on vb5.

[Zachery]

So there is zero fall back in place? Well thats a smart move... great to know there are decent, experienced devs working on vb5.

The internet in 2012 is very much a dhtml/ajax/javascript world. Most popular applications online no longer have any level of non js fallback. It has nothing to do with the level of experience developers have.

[AlexanderT]

The internet in 2012 is very much a dhtml/ajax/javascript world. Most popular applications online no longer have any level of non js fallback.

True. Fallbacks are usually not needed as long as the intrinsic elements of a website are done in a non-Ajaxy fashion. I am afraid that, at least in the current vB5 beta 10, they've overdone it.

Even without Ajax/Javascript, users should be able to:

• navigate the site
• read/view the content
• perform the key tasks of the site
• be made aware if things are broken due to lack of Javascript

Take Facebook for example. From a visual stand point, Facebook looks perfect even without Javascript enabled. While you cannot update your status, edit your profile, or record videos of yourself, at least you can navigate and read most of the content of Facebook, including viewing photo albums.

Take Stack Overflow for example. A flash banner informs you that the site works best with Javascript enabled. Nice. Navigation works, even asking questions, editing and posting works.

The current vB5 beta is unusable without Javascript.

Side question: Have you tested whether vB5 is accessible? What about clients using a screen reader? With all that Ajax stuff going on I am afraid it's not going to work. That could be a real problem for site operators who are required by law to make their sites accessible.

[rmwebs]

The internet in 2012 is very much a dhtml/ajax/javascript world. Most popular applications online no longer have any level of non js fallback. It has nothing to do with the level of experience developers have.

Point me to three...no...two 'popular applications' (i.e paid applications with a large following) that no longer have any level of non js fallback.

[dethfire]

Point me to three...no...two 'popular applications' (i.e paid applications with a large following) that no longer have any level of non js fallback.

mmm facebook? the number of people not running js is incredibley small, give it up

[Solitaire]

I dont think the issue is whether or not to have the option of a js off switch, but rather get the number of queries per page down. Why does it have to load all the content and then hide it no matter what tab you click on?