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  • #31
    Thread ID's changing from an update is no bueno at all


    vb 4 to vb 5 is an update, not an import
    all thread/post id's should not have changed in a perfect world
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    • #32
      Originally posted by Loco.M View Post
      Thread ID's changing from an update is no bueno at all


      vb 4 to vb 5 is an update, not an import
      all thread/post id's should not have changed in a perfect world
      It is more of an import, than an upgrade because of the drastic schema change.
      The schema change makes it impossible for threadid's to remain the same. All old urls will still work.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Zachery View Post
        It is more of an import, than an upgrade because of the drastic schema change.
        The schema change makes it impossible for threadid's to remain the same.
        Could you please explain why it would be impossible. I find that very difficult to believe.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Zachery View Post
          It is more of an import, than an upgrade because of the drastic schema change.
          The schema change makes it impossible for threadid's to remain the same. All old urls will still work.
          Import - a good description of what is going on. Who was responsible for this decision and ensuring the wisdom of this direction? Sure the URLs will "work" but it's not without affecting other things. I have to agree with all the sentiments echoed by the very knowledgeable people responding in this thread.

          Let's say I replaced the engine of a car with another one that is supposed to be more versatile. However, the new engine requires much more gas to power the car at the same speed to perform its most common function. It is also much larger and heavier than the old engine, weighing the car down. Sure the wheels will spin and perhaps it can also provide enough power for an HDTV in the back seat for the kiddies but it's not without some sacrifices.

          I guess it comes down to this - does it look at all likely that we'll be able to avoid an import? At this very late stage, I'm wondering if there is an even a remote chance that this functionality can be included.
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Andy View Post
            Could you please explain why it would be impossible. I find that very difficult to believe.
            1) The files do not exist. There is no showthread.php, forum.php, etc... There is index.php it does everything. Well it is the entry point for everything.

            2) There are no thread, post or forum tables that are used after the upgrade. There are node and channel tables.

            3) A thread is not really different than a blog post or a private message. They are just nodes. They aren't treated much differently in the database.

            This is what happens when you rewrite software from the ground up as people were asking us to do. We've warned for years that things like this could happen with a rewrite. When you re-architecture something, things change. Key things change. Of course only you can decide if you want to go with that change or not.

            However, I wouldn't say it is impossible. However is not feasable that we're going to create a system to accommodate everyone's URL desire. Maybe vBSEO will be your solution as they allow customized URLS. We need to create something that works for the majority.
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            Wayne Luke
            The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
            vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
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            I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by slinky View Post
              Import - a good description of what is going on. Who was responsible for this decision and ensuring the wisdom of this direction? Sure the URLs will "work" but it's not without affecting other things. I have to agree with all the sentiments echoed by the very knowledgeable people responding in this thread.

              Let's say I replaced the engine of a car with another one that is supposed to be more versatile. However, the new engine requires much more gas to power the car at the same speed to perform its most common function. It is also much larger and heavier than the old engine, weighing the car down. Sure the wheels will spin and perhaps it can also provide enough power for an HDTV in the back seat for the kiddies but it's not without some sacrifices.

              I guess it comes down to this - does it look at all likely that we'll be able to avoid an import? At this very late stage, I'm wondering if there is an even a remote chance that this functionality can be included.
              The car analogy works as well as comparing a monkey to the moon.

              The choice in URL structure is not changing at this time. Sorry. It would require huge and fundamental changes to the software.
              Translations provided by Google.

              Wayne Luke
              The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
              vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
              vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
              I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                This is what happens when you rewrite software from the ground up as people were asking us to do. We've warned for years that things like this could happen with a rewrite. When you re-architecture something, things change. Key things change. Of course only you can decide if you want to go with that change or not.
                Wayne with all due respect, how you design your schema has nothing to do with whether or not it is a rewrite. Like I have been harping on again and again, the single node table decision wasn't the smartest given that VB is an online application with dependence on URLs. You could have had different tables with same structure and maybe a view where everything was in one place (though I cannot fathom what benefit there is to having everything in one place). Not taking the usage requirements of thousands of your established customers in consideration when making this decision is a major design fault. I really don't see many customers upgrading until this is changed or a solution is found to maintain the old URLs.
                Owner: Oracle Forums - General Discussion Forums.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by sadikb View Post
                  Wayne with all due respect, how you design your schema has nothing to do with whether or not it is a rewrite. Like I have been harping on again and again, the single node table decision wasn't the smartest given that VB is an online application with dependence on URLs. You could have had different tables with same structure and maybe a view where everything was in one place (though I cannot fathom what benefit there is to having everything in one place). Not taking the usage requirements of thousands of your established customers in consideration when making this decision is a major design fault. I really don't see many customers upgrading until this is changed or a solution is found to maintain the old URLs.
                  You're welcome to your opinions.
                  Translations provided by Google.

                  Wayne Luke
                  The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
                  vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
                  vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                  I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                    3) A thread is not really different than a blog post or a private message. They are just nodes. They aren't treated much differently in the database.
                    I noticed this when I posted a blog. It's not treated any differently than a thread on the user end which is unfortunate and kind of makes the point of having a blogs section a bit useless. I post a blog and instead of being taken to my latest blog post, I am presented with an empty post screen as if my blog never posted, but I can see my blog post threaded in the latest comments as if it were a thread.
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                    • #40
                      umm perhaps there will be a solution to convert between old and new IDs? Or simply use ModRewrite to redirect old id links to new links?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Hall of Famer View Post
                        umm perhaps there will be a solution to convert between old and new IDs? Or simply use ModRewrite to redirect old id links to new links?
                        Old urls are redirected to the new proper url.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Solitaire View Post
                          I noticed this when I posted a blog. It's not treated any differently than a thread on the user end which is unfortunate and kind of makes the point of having a blogs section a bit useless. I post a blog and instead of being taken to my latest blog post, I am presented with an empty post screen as if my blog never posted, but I can see my blog post threaded in the latest comments as if it were a thread.
                          I understand this. There is actually a JIRA to make the blogs more unique in display (which is different from storage). I would use a horizontal postbit here or change the author information box. We'll see how it goes. Blogs and Social groups are rougher than forums currently.
                          Translations provided by Google.

                          Wayne Luke
                          The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud customization and demonstration site.
                          vBulletin 5 Documentation - Updated every Friday. Report issues here.
                          vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                          I am not currently available for vB Messenger Chats.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                            Old urls are redirected to the new proper url.
                            Then why are they complaining? It broke their own application?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Hall of Famer View Post
                              Then why are they complaining? It broke their own application?
                              People are upset that the ids are changing, and that urls are changing. This can cause some loss of search engine rankings in the short term.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post

                                However, I wouldn't say it is impossible. However is not feasable that we're going to create a system to accommodate everyone's URL desire. Maybe vBSEO will be your solution as they allow customized URLS. We need to create something that works for the majority.
                                I thought it would be possible, everything is possible.

                                Not sure what you mean by everyone's URL, I've been using the same default vBulletin URL for 10 years, backward compatibility should have an option.

                                The other issue keeping the same thread and post id's, I'm sure this is possible too.

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