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3.8.7 - when will we see it.

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  • Jafo
    replied
    Perhaps they bit off more than they could chew jumping to 4.0. Perhaps a little 3.8 time might benefit 4.x in an odd way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark.B
    replied
    Originally posted by creativepart View Post
    So you and perhaps others say. I say it does. It seems since you upgraded to 4.X this is not an issue for you.

    Let's hear from others that do want to see 3.X continue. And I realize that 3.8 isn't EOL yet -- but lack of any development or any releases is just a prelude to EOL. That's fairly obvious.

    3.8 with Facebook Connect would be great. Perhaps they could fix the Album feature, too? LIke when you delete users and it doesn't delete their Albums and there is no way to do so once the user is deleted. VB knows of this bug, and is working to fix it in 4.X but they've openly said they won't fix it in 3.8 because its a dead end.

    There are other such enhancements and bug fixes that would be a great way to extend 3.X
    Why should my upgrading to 4.x mean that I don't "want to see 3.8 continue"?
    Unlike many I don't just think of myself. I take an active interest in what happens in the world of vBulletin and my own switching to 4.x doesn't mean I suddenly have no interest in 3.8.

    i think there are valid points in this thread, but I'm realistic - it isn't going to happen. We cannot get IB to develop 4.x properly. Let alone 3.8.

    But it should not be EOL'd and maintenance releases and patches should continue.

    Leave a comment:


  • creativepart
    replied
    Originally posted by smiggy View Post
    See, told you.
    This is not news to me. I could see this coming and this is why I've started a push to save it now, before an EOL announcement is made.

    Leave a comment:


  • smiggy
    replied
    Originally posted by Zachery View Post
    I am moderately sure you'll never seen an update past 3.8.7. But that is just me.
    See, told you.

    Btw, according to IBAdrian, 3.8.7 will be released today.

    Leave a comment:


  • creativepart
    replied
    Hi Zachery,
    I know you're support and not management -- but I'm sure you've seen this issue as a legitimate issue (3.X users not upgrading to 4.X) and can see the logic in this appeal to not stop 3.8 development yet.

    PS. I was born and raised in Akron -- but that was over 50 years ago. I went to Litchfield, Firestone and graduated from Revere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zachery
    replied
    I am moderately sure you'll never seen an update past 3.8.7. But that is just me.

    Leave a comment:


  • creativepart
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
    so 3.8 has no chance.
    So you and perhaps others say. I say it does. It seems since you upgraded to 4.X this is not an issue for you.

    Let's hear from others that do want to see 3.X continue. And I realize that 3.8 isn't EOL yet -- but lack of any development or any releases is just a prelude to EOL. That's fairly obvious.

    3.8 with Facebook Connect would be great. Perhaps they could fix the Album feature, too? LIke when you delete users and it doesn't delete their Albums and there is no way to do so once the user is deleted. VB knows of this bug, and is working to fix it in 4.X but they've openly said they won't fix it in 3.8 because its a dead end.

    There are other such enhancements and bug fixes that would be a great way to extend 3.X

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark.B
    replied
    vB3.8 isn't EOL, nor are they refusing to sell new licenses for it, so the Microsoft issue isn't quite a perfect comparison.

    When vB3 came out, a much bigger interface change from vB2 than vB4 is over vB3, nobody wanted Jelsoft to continue developing vB2.

    The issue is, IB are still supposed to be releasing maintenance releases for 3.8 but they seem to have stopped bothering. They need to see this as a greater priority because they ARE supposed to be supporting the many users still on 3.8 and they simply aren't doing so, from that perspective anyhow.

    There should not be any new features developed for vB3 simply because it is not the current product. Even when Microsoft decided to keep XP alive, they didn't start adding new features to it, they just kept it supported with maintenance releases and that's what IB should do with vB3.8.

    I don't think there'd be any harm in them "officially" releasing the Skimlinks plugin for 3.8, since I'm led to believe it works anyhow.

    It'd also be good to see Facebook Connect on there but that's simply not going to happen.

    I was "stuck on 3.8" for almost a year after vb4 came out so I fully sympathise with the plight, and I would be 100% against any move to formally EOL the product at this stage. But as for development of new features - we currently can't get proper development of features for the "flagship" vB4 product, so 3.8 has no chance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ramsesx
    replied
    Originally posted by creativepart View Post
    Trevor, there's nothing wrong with VB 4.X. You folks have done a wonderful job on it. But, unfortunately, it's too different from 3.8 for the majority of VB 3.X users to ever upgrade to it. What needs to happen is VB needs to split the two versions -- 3.X and 4.X into two separate products and continue the life and development of 3.X.

    Call it VB Classic and start selling renewal licenses to it and create a small team to start working on fixes and incremental improvements to it.

    You'll sell 10s of thousands of renew licenses and you'll keep VB a leader in the forum software market place. You'll quickly thwart your competitors plans to take advantage of the 4.X misstep you all made.

    It's not that 4.X is bad or wrong. But it is not what the majority of 3.X forum owners want to upgrade to. I think we can all agree that this is the real world situation at this point and everyone should stop kidding themselves that 3.8 forums are going to upgrade to 4.X en masse any time soon.
    I like this idea, it would be in IB's own interest because, if they do it right, brings additional bucks into their pockets. A win win situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • creativepart
    replied
    Originally posted by melbo View Post
    We're not just a bunch of old guys who are resistant to change, we honestly don't like the interface and layout. I'm stuck on 3.8.6 and am not sure what to do.
    I know you said you're not, but if you run a forum that attracts an older audience and they are not cool with the 4.X's UI that's not your problem. It's just a fact of life. And it's one that you HAVE to pay attention to.

    My site is populated by folks age 16 to 86 -- almost all guys. The average age is right around 40 years old. The forum has been in existence since 1999 and has 65,000+ members. These guys do not like change one bit.

    Like you, I'm stuck on 3.8.6 (actually running 3.7.3 on there now but will update to 3.8.6 or 3.8.7). I run my forums as my only income. It's my business. It earns significant income on the 8 million pageviews I have every month.

    So, I'm not playing around with my software. I'll do what it takes and spend what it takes to keep my business growing and flourishing.

    There's no reason why VB 3.8 could not be that software for the next couple of years -- and perhaps VB will hear us and do two things:

    1. Change course and allow the 3.X family to continue
    2. Adjust their plans for 4.5 or 5.0 to be some kind or realistic bridge from the 3.X version so that older more established forums can stay with VB.

    Otherwise, we'll just have to consider all of VBs competitors as the logical upgrade path.

    Why would I take the drastic step to move to a VB Competitor if I won't even move to VB 4.X software? Because I can't let VB put my business at risk again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

    Leave a comment:


  • melbo
    replied
    I also purchased 4.0 Suite in presale. I've upgraded my test forum with every point release and it still doesn't seem right for me and my test users. We're not just a bunch of old guys who are resistant to change, we honestly don't like the interface and layout. I'm stuck on 3.8.6 and am not sure what to do. I don't understand why we can't have a 3.8.7 beta installation running on this IB server bank for 3.x users to test out for them. I've never installed beta versions on any live server and am not about to start with this -minor- update.

    Continued support for 3 would take me off the hook for awhile in my thought process. I've looked at other software and also have some tests going in other directions. In terms of dollars for IB, I think this would be a no brainer - many 3.8 users would be willing to pay (again) for an upgrade that would bridge them between 3.8 and 5. Dunno. Just a thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • creativepart
    replied
    Mark B. perhaps a product like VB Classic is not for you. That's fine. But surely you can see for a great many people it would be the answer to the year long struggle between VB and many of it's users. So perhaps you should let others speak on this issue.

    I again want to get beyond the VB 4X discussion. I just want to focus on the thousands of users that are sticking with 3.8 and will not move to 4.X.

    Remember when Windows XP was being discontinued -- it was at EOL stage. But thousands of companies did not want to upgrade to Windows Vista. Microsoft took the smart business decision to change their plans. They not only took XP off EOL status, they actually released another service pack for it. They allowed companies to buy new licenses. They allowed OEMs to continue selling computers with XP. This was not their plan. And, clearly they all were behind their new product and believed it to be the better product.

    This is one of those kinds of situations. We don't have to demonize VB. We don't have to denounce VB 4.X. We just want Vbulletin -- the company -- to make the smart business decision to extend the life of VB 3.8. What I'm calling VB Classic.

    And VB Classic doesn't need a lot of changes or improvements. Some refining and completion of projects started on it previously is all that is needed. Plus continued support and continued security fixes.

    Yes, the "new" developers at VB are not tied into the old code. But there's not a one here that's not a professional that could relish the task of working to improve the VB Classic code and help out both the thousands of VB 3.8 installed base -- while helping the profitability and standing of their own company at the same time.

    Let's begin to see this through. I hope others will speak up and that Adrian and the others in decision making roles at Vbulletin will give this serious consideration. Everyone says it cannot happen. I say, "why not" and let's make it happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • briansol
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
    Maybe. However, you must realise that almost all of vb3 was developed by the "old" team. If the current team were to develop 3.8 forwards, it would be subject to the same "agile development" nonsense that vB4 has got. meaning you'd suddenly get a whole new styling system in 3.8.9 or something and lots of custom stuff would break.

    vB3 would, within a short space of time, be attracting exactly the same sort of complaints as vb4 is now.

    So, I think it's all a pipe dream even if they were to say yes (which they won't).
    Agile has NOTHING to do with styling systems or customizations. Frankly, the only thing "I" see vb using that is Agile is the versioning system. The rest of the SDLC is basically not shown in the end product.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

    Leave a comment:


  • Jafo
    replied
    I can definitely see how some sites may make the transition easier than others. However a heavily modified board or network of boards is really going to take a lot of work and some of our test cases have gone miserably. I understand that is not the case for everyone but clearly there is a rather large group that shares my view on this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark.B
    replied
    Originally posted by Jafo View Post
    I think the hardest part of this conversation is sooner or later someone will come in and say vb X is better than vb Y so I agree (or I disagree so shut up). I believe it is to the point where it is like arguing which flavor of ice cream is better. Each owner has their own appetite. Now granted, from everything I see in the field, people clearly like 3.8 better. I have yet to see anything substantive to the contrary. I just hope this discussion does not break into one of those. We are not complaining about 4, we just love our 3.8 and cannot risk such a bold move to what is very different software.
    Not everyone is so polarised.

    But not everyone prefers vb3 over vb4 either.

    I thought for a long time I would never get away with an upgrade to vB4, but when 4.0.8 came out I thought it might be worth another trial and was pleasantly surprised at how easy the transition had become. It's really not THAT different to vB3 actually. Once you get your head round the stylevars you're pretty much there. A carefully considered rollout will ensure the transition works - I was surprised and delighted to note that, far from disliking my upgrade, as I had expected, most of my members were at worst indifferent and at best quite impressed with what we achieved.

    No major upgrade is ever going to be without teething problems and there will always be an element of effort and time involved, unless you're running a completely stock board. I made sure i didn't just rush in, i took the time to match the upgraded site to what my community wanted and expected. Surely that's what we should be doing with everything we do?

    Leave a comment:

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