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  • Hosting/Performance Dilemma

    Hi all,

    I'm hoping some people read this post and can offer a viable solution(s) to the problem we find my site faced with. My co-admin and I have been with HostPC for seven to eight years and always received top notch service from the then owner at reasonably affordable prices. He let us know when we were generating enough traffic to warrant a move to a more powerful server and we generally trusted his advice. Well, as many of you know, HostPC was sold several months back, which I just found out about when trying to get to the bottom of the problem I'm about to describe and it's left us with a dilemma.

    For the past two or three months, our site performance has gradually gotten noticeably worse - pages load slower, generic database errors are now becoming prevalent, etc. We currently run vBulletin version 3.8.6 with the latest patches. Since I did not know my hosting company was sold, I attempted to contact the former owner, as we've always done, for help with the problem, but because of the sale, he of course did not respond. All I'm trying to say with this is that it's been going on for quite some time now, but now it's to the point that our site (redszone.com) is barely usable and at times, it isn't. When I opened a support ticket and described the problem, I was told the problem is twofold: 1). our database is far too big (an example cited was a 1.2 GB Post table) and 2). our current traffic far exceeds the specifications of the high-end shared server that our site currently resides on. Specifically, I was told that the MySQL levels far exceed normal usage of a shared hosting account and that recent changes that were made per user (10 simultaneous sql connections per second) further restrict the site from working as normal. I don't know if this is verbatim or an exaggeration for effect, but we were quoted as we currently have 50+ visitors per second with each page trying to do 5+ SQL queries.

    As far as the first problem, that's easy enough for me to take care of if I could get the prune posts function to work, but only a very small handful of posts are actually pruned before the operation times out. On a similar note, I can't even make a reliable backup for my own peace of mind because the operation obviously times out within AdminCP or phpMyAdmin and as far as I know, since we're on a shared server, we do not have SSH access. That I can not currently backup our database is very troubling.

    As far as the second option goes, we're attempting to be sold on a virtual private server or dedicated server. When I asked which VPS would accommodate our current traffic levels, I was told the most expensive one on this page (VPS-4). I don't know enough about this stuff to realize if the most expensive VPS is truly necessary to handle our traffic or a less expensive VPS would suffice; hence, I'm posting this message here. If you don't mind, please check out the page I linked above and if someone could explain whether VPS-4 or a dedicated server sounds truly necessary, I'd really appreciate it. I imagine that I will need to provide some site statistics in order to assist with that advice, but I'm not really sure what I need to provide, so if you can tell me what I'm looking for within our statistics, I should be able to provide that. Any advice you can offer to get our site running functionally again, regardless of the option (moving to a different server, hosting company, etc.) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

  • #2
    Hello,

    with a database that big i'm afraid your host (the new owner) is right.Your site is no longer suitable on a shared server (eg slow , database errors) it's time togo dedicated.Dedicated means all resources on the purchased server are yours... do not trust somebody else (your host) advice they will indeed try to promote you there most expensive solution but to give you a decent advice some more info is needed

    1) what's your traffic?
    2)how manny users do you have online at once?
    3) do you need special things like RAID (costs extra)
    4) do you need server management?

    based on that you can choose a server and have an idea what's it's going to cost you but no more shared ... you are verry lucky you're host didn't suspended you (most of them will)

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm going to agree with DelphiVillage here.

      HostPC/TurnKey Internet are good though, well have been in my experience.
      Shamil Nunhuck, - Radon Systems Ltd.
      VPS + Dedicated Server Hosting and Management
      vBulletin Hosting and Services
      Server / Website Consultation

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the initial responses.

        I was intentionally vague in my original post because while I knew additional details would be necessary to make any kind of real recommendation, I wasn't sure exactly what was needed. To clarify, most of the posts I attempted to prune were completely unnecessary in that the site is somewhat time sensitive (it's a baseball discussion site) and the posts I had started deleting dated back as far as 2005. They're not truly necessary, but I never gave serious thought to delete them until it was suggested that was a major part of the current problem. Additionally, we've had a large number of threads out there for some time and these performance issues didn't start until a couple of months ago, so unless we hit some "magic number", I highly doubt pruning a large amount of old posts will completely resolve the problem.

        The statistic package my site uses is Awstats, so anything that package can provide, I can post here, if needed. I'll start with my list of currently installed addons - I have not made any major changes in that regard in some time:

        Admin Log In As User
        Banned Members Filter by Rafael Lopez
        Display Number of Spiders
        Enhanced Captcha Image Verification
        Flashchat 4 Integration
        Guest Tracking
        Live Topic
        Members who are using Flashchat 4
        Most Recent Searches
        Multiple Login Detector
        Passive Video [Lite]
        Sakera's Hide Poll Result
        Smilies in Quickreply
        vBCode table
        Who Has Read a Thread

        We typically have ~125-150 users online at a time between guests and registered members but since this is a baseball forum, that number can occasionally be significantly higher, such as during baseball games or after a significant event (trade, free agent signing) occurs. The amount of visitors we receive now is in line with what we received months ago prior to this happening, so if that's any indication, the number of users alone shouldn't be the root cause. In December 2010, we generated 55.15 GB of bandwidth; on average for 2010, it was 62.34 GB a month. My total database size is 1.76 GB. Per Awstats, for the month of January so far, from 1/1/11 to 1/20/11 at 4:30 PM EST, we have received: 21,352 Unique Visitors, 88,916 Number of Visits, 1,452,438 Pages, 6,420,582 Hits and 21.79 GB Bandwidth (256.94 KB/Visit). My image storage method is storing items in the database and has been set to that for quite some time.

        With the status quo, I can not change the server configuration due to being on a shared server. I don't know the first thing about server management, so I would assume I'd need my hosting company to handle that. I do not have any specific needs such as RAID. My two objectives with this thread are to determine 1). If I would be better served switching hosting companies and 2). If not, which of the packages that HostPC offers best meets my needs (instead of just assuming the most expensive VPS is what we need). Again, if there's other information you need from me in order to offer your advice, please let me know what it is and I'll do my best to provide it. Thanks again for everyone's help.

        Comment


        • #5
          That's the sad thing when companies are sold, or taken over by other companies they don't compare to what they used to, or don't care or various reasons, but I don't see the data base being "too big for shared" I just got a shared client that had 5.9GB data base, I don't think a size determines what should be shared and non-shared, it would depend on the amount of users online at a time, or queries per XX time, and than the company what type of servers they have.

          It just depends what your budget is, I mean if your going to spend $60 a month on a vps, you could spend a little more and get a lower end dedicated server, or increase your budget by $100 to $150-200 and get a high end server and than you don't have to worry about upgrading in the future, you would be good for a long time to come, it just depends what route you want to go..

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ryan1918 View Post
            That's the sad thing when companies are sold, or taken over by other companies they don't compare to what they used to, or don't care or various reasons, but I don't see the data base being "too big for shared" I just got a shared client that had 5.9GB data base, I don't think a size determines what should be shared and non-shared, it would depend on the amount of users online at a time, or queries per XX time, and than the company what type of servers they have.

            It just depends what your budget is, I mean if your going to spend $60 a month on a vps, you could spend a little more and get a lower end dedicated server, or increase your budget by $100 to $150-200 and get a high end server and than you don't have to worry about upgrading in the future, you would be good for a long time to come, it just depends what route you want to go..
            A 5.9GB Database is quite large, for a shared server.
            Shamil Nunhuck, - Radon Systems Ltd.
            VPS + Dedicated Server Hosting and Management
            vBulletin Hosting and Services
            Server / Website Consultation

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Shamil. View Post
              A 5.9GB Database is quite large, for a shared server.
              If its within his alloted limits I don't see a reason why its size should come into play.

              The first thing I would do is get them to dump your database from the shell and get a good copy of it on your personal computer + backup drive.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                If its within his alloted limits I don't see a reason why its size should come into play.

                The first thing I would do is get them to dump your database from the shell and get a good copy of it on your personal computer + backup drive.
                I should say that I'm going with the common sleazehost reseller.
                Shamil Nunhuck, - Radon Systems Ltd.
                VPS + Dedicated Server Hosting and Management
                vBulletin Hosting and Services
                Server / Website Consultation

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                  If its within his alloted limits I don't see a reason why its size should come into play.

                  The first thing I would do is get them to dump your database from the shell and get a good copy of it on your personal computer + backup drive.
                  Yeah I don't get why people just assume "5GB" "10GB" is just too big for shared is far from true, I mean, the site could be 10 years old, and have a 10gb database the size might be big, but the site could be very small with just millions of posts and a few hundred users, which wouldn't affect the server in any way, specially a high end server, but I am just me so, haha.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Boss-Hog View Post
                    Thanks for the initial responses.

                    My image storage method is storing items in the database and has been set to that for quite some time.
                    Why not change that, first. After you see how your site runs, make your hosting decision.
                    Greg
                    www.urljet.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GregUURL View Post
                      Why not change that, first. After you see how your site runs, make your hosting decision.
                      Because people like something, or and don't like changing, probably a bad idea to keep storing things like that in a data base, pretty soon it's going to be too big to even host on a vps or alike, you might need a dedicated server for the amount mysql is going to use just to load it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ryan1918 View Post
                        Because people like something, or and don't like changing, probably a bad idea to keep storing things like that in a data base, pretty soon it's going to be too big to even host on a vps or alike, you might need a dedicated server for the amount mysql is going to use just to load it.
                        Not really too big for a VPS. I've a client whom I've allocated 4GB RAM, and 250GB Disk Space.
                        Shamil Nunhuck, - Radon Systems Ltd.
                        VPS + Dedicated Server Hosting and Management
                        vBulletin Hosting and Services
                        Server / Website Consultation

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1.2GB should be fine on a decent VPS, but certainly not on shared hosting. Unusually in this case the host is correct and is not making excuses.

                          My db is about 750mb, I took it off shared and onto VPS when it was only 400mb. I know that's not the only criteria but it does give an indication....
                          MARK.B | vBULLETIN SUPPORT

                          TalkNewsUK - My vBulletin 5.5.4 Demo
                          AdminAmmo - My Cloud Demo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mark.B View Post
                            1.2GB should be fine on a decent VPS, but certainly not on shared hosting. Unusually in this case the host is correct and is not making excuses.

                            My db is about 750mb, I took it off shared and onto VPS when it was only 400mb. I know that's not the only criteria but it does give an indication....
                            I disagree, database size does not have a direct impact in this discussion. If he is sold 10,000mb of storage, and only using 60%, assuming his other plan resources are not being consumed then he should not be penalized. Its about visitors, less about storage usage.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                              I disagree, database size does not have a direct impact in this discussion. If he is sold 10,000mb of storage, and only using 60%, assuming his other plan resources are not being consumed then he should not be penalized. Its about visitors, less about storage usage.
                              totally agree

                              Comment

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