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  • Originally posted by Wayne Luke
    Wouldn't know what that is like, Windows Automatically downloads all critical updates as they are made available. I then look at the details and install them as I see fit. The only time my computer reboots is on Friday's at 4:00 a.m. while I am sleeping. It then logs me in, restarts all my critical applications like email and continues on. Don't even lose the webpage I was browsing the night before since it is already loaded for me when I get up.
    So your talking about a desktop machine that you browse on, not a server the is used for development or under production load.
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    • Originally posted by Jerry
      So your talking about a desktop machine that you browse on, not a server the is used for development or under production load.
      Yes, I have never been talking about a server in this thread but from a workstation standpoint.

      My own webserver currently runs Redhat Enterprise 3 and it took 3 days to setup and get everything installed properly. Servers I can understand, I am merely talking from a workstation point of view here. At the most its server capacities would be limited to localhost testing.

      Honestly, I would like to get more involved with Linux on a workstation basis. A server doesn't have need for a GUI but a workstations does. To me, taking 3 days to deploy a workstation is too long. I used to have a job where we had to have 1 hour turn-around on workstation replacement. Heck, we used to keep hard drives around with all the software preinstalled just for that purpose. Computer goes down, we take a hard drive to the end-user's desk, open the box, put in the new hard drive and the user is back to work in 15-20 minutes.
      Last edited by Wayne Luke; Fri 19th Mar '04, 8:31am.
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      Wayne Luke
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      • Well we really must change your experinces of installing then, RH-E-3 being a pain I can understand I never liked it. Though when I was at C&W we had automated builds going to a machine in about 15 mins (of RH7.2 not enterprise), if it took longer than 20, people in suits got all pissed off. In the end the limiting factor was the LAN speed.

        I usally just export the display of my *nix machines to a X manager on my desktop if I want to look at pretty windows or get bored of putty'ing every where.
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        • Well... I am about ready to give up on the whole linux idea! LOL

          I downloaded Gentoo... I was really hoping it would at least have an automated install option - I don't *need* to configure everything. Mandrake installs in 30 minutes, but with Gentoo I balked as soon as I got a command prompt. Even with the manual, I'm not sure what I should be following.

          I installed Mandrake 10 today (because I wanted the latest Kopete), but it now won't run ADSL. 9.2 managed it fine... Sigh.

          How do I get rid of that bootloader now, if I don't want to have the linux/windows/floppy boot option screen at startup?

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          • Originally posted by MarkB
            ........I don't *need* to configure everything..........
            Probally best go with one of the other distros then I suppose, sounds like you are using on the desktop opposed to a server ?
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            • Yes, I'm like Wayne - I just want a workstation, not a server

              (I didn't realise this thread was server-specific...)

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              • Not at all, gentoo isn't bias towards (though I think most are probably servers) either set up, I think just about all of the desktop apps that you would use, all I've come across any way are in the gentoo portage system.

                Personally I'd persevere its a bit riding a bike I find, as soon as you figure it out or realise why things are done in a certain way, you suddenly think "Oh of course...... !!"

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                • I would like a workstation too. I have been testing with a whole assortment of distros, and for a home-computer (for the kids, anyone...), so far Mandrake seems to be an ease of use, and LindowsOS is good too but it seems to be bloated.

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                  • Yea I was impressed with LindowsOS when I had a play with it, I've just got a new desktop and for the sake of games am sticking with XP because I can't be arsed with setting up all the emulators, though I will be going dual boot once things have calmed down a bit and I get one of the old dev HD's out of a server and stuff it in the new desktop, though I think I'll take on the under an hour Gentoo challenge to see if I can do it
                    I wrote ImpEx.

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                    • Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                      I want to put a CD in my computer and have a running OS in 30-45 minutes. Can Gentoo do that? Personally I don't really care about some compiling flag that allows me to squeeze an extra millisecond out of loading an application. Has no benefit to me in real time. If I install a computer Operating System, I don't want to spend hours or days tweaking and compiling it before I can get something done.
                      I will not debate the effort and time involved in installing Gentoo, it' takes too long, and it's very complex (but well documented).

                      However, the difference is not milliseconds. The investment in time is well worth it for those in search of speed and optimization, especially on the desktop. If your system takes 5 or 10 seconds to load a graphical application, using Gentoo cuts the time down by more than 50%. That's very significant in terms of responsiveness, and directly effects productivity. Mozilla, on my Fedora installation takes about 2 seconds to launch. On Gentoo, it's a lot less than a second. Same for Gimp, Office.org etc.

                      It's like doubling your processor and memory, without paying for it

                      Check here for performance comparisons:

                      http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/performance.xml

                      But I don't recommend it (Gentoo) to a new Linux user, I'd recommend Fedora, Suse, Mandrake etc., and if they've only used Windows, I'll recommend Xandros or Lindows.
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                      • Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                        Wouldn't know what that is like, Windows Automatically downloads all critical updates as they are made available. I then look at the details and install them as I see fit.
                        What about your applications? They do not get updated by Windows update.

                        With Gentoo, updating "world" checks every single package you have installed on your system from portage and if there is a newer version, it will download it and merge it so that you're bang up to date Everything from a strange libx to mysql to SSH patches, to gimp tweaks and updates.. it's a great way to stay on top in that respect.
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                        • Originally posted by tamarian
                          I will not debate the effort and time involved in installing Gentoo, it' takes too long, and it's very complex (but well documented).
                          Very complex ?? Set up AIX with raid lately ?
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                          • Originally posted by MarkB
                            How do I get rid of that bootloader now, if I don't want to have the linux/windows/floppy boot option screen at startup?
                            Edit /boot/grub/grub.conf or if you're on KDE, there is an option in the control panel.

                            BTW, I really don't think you should switch to Gentoo if you're not accustomed to the "Linux enviroment". If you want a quick setup, check out SuSe's YaST.
                            Raz - KMC Forums

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                            • For first timers I would recommend either Lindows or Knoppix. I presonaly prefer Knoppix, it's much more updated than Lindows or Gentoo.

                              Check http://www.distrowatch.com for good indepth analysis.

                              R.L.

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                              • Originally posted by Jerry
                                Very complex ?? Set up AIX with raid lately ?
                                I probably should have said it's the most complex of the Linux distros.

                                Most Linux distros have hardware auto detection of some sort, and come pre-built with applications. With Gentoo, you need to know your hardware in order to configure your kernel, what type of network cards you have, IDE or SCSI, etc. That's just to install a base system. Then you need to install X windows, and start installing the basic apps, setup your make.conf and USE line, and wait the several hours it takes to install either KDE or Gnome, some tweaking of X, and config files. And then you start installing the apps you need/use. Basically, you need to do lots of things you never needed to do with other distros. So for the average user, iit is very complex, and time consuming.

                                But once it's installed and set up, IMHO, it's well worth it.
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