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  • #91
    Originally posted by tamarian
    ......optimization .........
    Key word there, for sysadmins and people have servers that are under load.

    "Oh just slap distro XXXX on it"

    or

    "Righty, lets tune this thing propperly"
    I wrote ImpEx.

    Blog | Me

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Wayne Luke
      So then what is the benefit of stage 3 over say Suse Linux which only takes about 30 minutes to install?

      Still not sure why people want to spend hours and days installing an OS and software so their computer is useable. Anything more than an hour for an OS is not acceptable in my book.
      Originally posted by Splooge
      emerge is gentoo specific.

      The package system is called 'portage', not 'emerge.' It's akin to the BSD's ports system.

      I've been a gentoo user for well over a year now. It's my distribution of choice. One of the things that makes it so 'speedy' is that you can compile your binaries without 'bloat'. eg: Why compile PostgreSQL support into PHP when you don't need it? Or Java, for example. Say you have no plans on ever using Java, but there's like 100 programs out there that support it, so they have Java support built in. With Gentoo, you can keep java support out of ALL your binaries.

      Smaller binaries = quicker to read off disk & you can fit more of them into RAM.

      Then of course there's the processer optimizations. Why run binaries compiled for 386 architecture when you can run binaries compiled for 686 and beyond? Some argue that there's no noticible speed increase between the two (though I disagree) but it's all the small things like these above two examples that just give it that bleeding edge performance.

      I was running a VB which would peak at 100 users on a P2-350 using Gentoo. No way that would have worked with Windows.

      It's certainly not for the feint of heart, and I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner unless that person has a good knowledge of computers.
      Absolutely ZERO bloat, you won't find that in any other distribution (except for, maybe, LFS)

      Oh, and not to mention GCC optimizations, such as:

      Originally posted by Gentoo Forums
      CFLAGS="-march=pentium4 -O3 -pipe -fforce-addr -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -frerun-loop-opt -frerun-cse-after-loop -falign-functions=4"

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      • #93
        Originally posted by splooge
        Absolutely ZERO bloat, you won't find that in any other distribution (except for, maybe, LFS)

        Oh, and not to mention GCC optimizations, such as:
        Would this be a good choice for me. I am completly new to the user-end of linux. I just got a computer free Compaq 450 mhz, with 256 ram that I want to test various distros of linux with.

        So is Gentoo the way to go?

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Arunan.S
          Would this be a good choice for me. I am completly new to the user-end of linux. I just got a computer free Compaq 450 mhz, with 256 ram that I want to test various distros of linux with.

          So is Gentoo the way to go?
          Its one of them, if you are new I'd play with lots of them, depends on what you want it for really ?
          I wrote ImpEx.

          Blog | Me

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          • #95
            Yeah, the benefits of Gentoo in my opinion are (in order)
            • emerge package system - simply fantastic, simple to use and easy to stay up to date not just with your OS but all of your applications too (security/bug fixes/patches etc).
            • Tuning - compile your OS from whatever stage you like, to make it as efficient as you like/prefer.
            • documentation - is outstanding and the gentoo community forums are an Oasis of information/howto's with little elitism. They are happy to help the new guy, as long as he's made an effort to at least read the handbook and search the forums a little.
            HP DL-380 G6, 2x E5520, 28GB RAM, 4x300GB SAS, VMWare ESXi
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            • #96
              I tried to install it but it was really complicated. I couldn't install it. The installation part is not automatic and really complicated if you have never used Linux. I couldn't make the right partitions. Mandrake is so easy to install but apparently Gentoo is better. When they will make an easy installation, my pc will be on it .

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Jerry
                Its one of them, if you are new I'd play with lots of them, depends on what you want it for really ?
                What I mainly want it for is for home computing and maybe eventually as a server, mainly I want to test and get the feel of linux inside and out.

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                • #98
                  Maybe if I ever setup a server from scratch, I will look into this but for a goof-off machine that will mainly sit in the corner unless I have time to play on it, I will mess with something else. The most it might be used for on a daily basis is a local webserver for testing purposes but wouldn't be connected to the outside world. But even that is debateable since I already have such an environment setup on my Windows machine.

                  Linux applications have already proven to me that they are not ready for me to run my business on, so this would not become my main machine for quite some time if ever. I don't really have time to compile every program I want to run, play with nightly upgrades and the like so being forced to do that is a major obstacle in my book. Nor do I want to fix bugs in the programs I will be using as I am not really interested in programming anymore. Instead I just want to get my work done and be able to spend time with my family. 16-20 days just aren't worth it to me.
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                  Wayne Luke
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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Arunan.S
                    What I mainly want it for is for home computing and maybe eventually as a server, mainly I want to test and get the feel of linux inside and out.
                    Well go with any of them, try a few.
                    I wrote ImpEx.

                    Blog | Me

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                    • Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                      Linux applications have already proven to me that they are not ready for me to run my business on, so this would not become my main machine for quite some time if ever. I don't really have time to compile every program I want to run, play with nightly upgrades and the like so being forced to do that is a major obstacle in my book. Nor do I want to fix bugs in the programs I will be using as I am not really interested in programming anymore. Instead I just want to get my work done and be able to spend time with my family. 16-20 days just aren't worth it to me.
                      Yup that's true, there are much less bugs in windows and Linux boxes once they are built take soooooo much maintenance .......

                      Compile every program ?

                      "emerge apache2"

                      Now you can't even install it on windows with less effort that than as far as I'm aware.
                      I wrote ImpEx.

                      Blog | Me

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                      • Originally posted by Jerry
                        Yup that's true, there are much less bugs in windows and Linux boxes once they are built take soooooo much maintenance .......

                        Compile every program ?

                        "emerge apache2"

                        Now you can't even install it on windows with less effort that than as far as I'm aware.
                        Well then you are saying to different things in this thread. First you say to have control you need to install at Stage 1 which can take up to four days because you have to compile everything including the compiler. Then you say that you don't. SO really which is it?

                        I want to put a CD in my computer and have a running OS in 30-45 minutes. Can Gentoo do that? Personally I don't really care about some compiling flag that allows me to squeeze an extra millisecond out of loading an application. Has no benefit to me in real time. If I install a computer Operating System, I don't want to spend hours or days tweaking and compiling it before I can get something done.

                        So my question is:
                        Is it possible to go from empty Hard Drive to an installed and working OS with a GUI using Gentoo Linux in under an hour? If not, then it is not something that I am interested in.

                        As it is, I have two copies of Suse Professional sitting here that can get me up and running in 30 minutes.
                        Translations provided by Google.

                        Wayne Luke
                        The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                        vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                        Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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                        • Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                          Well then you are saying to different things in this thread. First you say to have control you need to install at Stage 1 which can take up to four days because you have to compile everything including the compiler. Then you say that you don't. SO really which is it?
                          Where do I say 4 days ? Mine took 4 hours and thats because I did it twice and had a play while I was doing it.

                          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                          I want to put a CD in my computer and have a running OS in 30-45 minutes. Can Gentoo do that?
                          Dunno, I'll have a go out of intrest.

                          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                          Personally I don't really care about some compiling flag that allows me to squeeze an extra millisecond out of loading an application.
                          Loading ? Do you mean the start up time of the process of the maximum work load of the CPU, two diffrent things.

                          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                          Has no benefit to me in real time. If I install a computer Operating System, I don't want to spend hours or days tweaking and compiling it before I can get something done.
                          Err then don't go stage 3 and just hit go, but as I've said a few times its horses for courses.

                          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                          Is it possible to go from empty Hard Drive to an installed and working OS with a GUI using Gentoo Linux in under an hour?
                          I'll give it a go, stage 3 with gnome. I'm building a machine next week so I'll have a go on that before I do it.

                          Though the Gentoo mantra is choice, not that everyone must use it and if doing nearly 0 maintaince and having a rock solid machine isnt your thing, stick to windows

                          Like I said horses for courses.
                          I wrote ImpEx.

                          Blog | Me

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                          • Originally posted by Jerry
                            Though the Gentoo mantra is choice, not that everyone must use it and if doing nearly 0 maintaince and having a rock solid machine isnt your thing, stick to windows
                            Ahh but I have a rock solid machine with Windows. I haven't had a single crash since installing Windows XP Professional. Maintainence is nil because it is all handled while I am asleep automatically.

                            My previous experiences with Linux were obviously much different than yours. Patches for various applications on a daily basis because of some security threat or another, constant crashing in the different GUI's that I tried, applications refusing to compile because of this dependancy or that, packages that wouldn't uninstall so new versions could be installed, lack of hardware support in the installation, and many other issues.
                            Translations provided by Google.

                            Wayne Luke
                            The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                            vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                            Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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                            • Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                              Ahh but I have a rock solid machine with Windows. I haven't had a single crash since installing Windows XP Professional. Maintainence is nil because it is all handled while I am asleep automatically.

                              My previous experiences with Linux were obviously much different than yours. Patches for various applications on a daily basis because of some security threat or another, constant crashing in the different GUI's that I tried, applications refusing to compile because of this dependancy or that, packages that wouldn't uninstall so new versions could be installed, lack of hardware support in the installation, and many other issues.
                              Stick to Windows then, the Gentoo Community believe and respect that choice.

                              The time factors are, in my opinion, something which shouldn't be taken into consideration. Why does it matter how long it takes to install an Operating System? You only do it once maybe every 6 months - 3 years with Windows. This is a mentality which seems to be embedded in a large number of people, even friends of mine who are pro linux think that Gentoo's (potential) install time is rediculous.

                              Your previous experiences with linux are addressed with gentoo in regard to patches, upgrades etc.

                              What would you prefer:

                              1) Use a browser to go to Windows update, go to the site and download the 15+ critical updates and other important patches, restarting 3 or 4 times.

                              2) type: emerge -u world and continue doing your work whilst your system updates in the background.

                              The worst disruption you're going to experience is an upgrade of your Windows Manager like KDE/Gnome, which will require a restart. However this is on par with an upgrade from Win2000 -> WinXP. Yet you can still achieve that whilst being productive.

                              You reap what you sow, and with gentoo the more time you spend on installation the more you will benefit from it in the long run afterwards in many different aspects. Like a lot of things in life.
                              HP DL-380 G6, 2x E5520, 28GB RAM, 4x300GB SAS, VMWare ESXi
                              -
                              Unreal Tournament : Assault forums - irc://irc.utassault.net:6667 -

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                              • Originally posted by Martz
                                1) Use a browser to go to Windows update, go to the site and download the 15+ critical updates and other important patches, restarting 3 or 4 times.
                                Wouldn't know what that is like, Windows Automatically downloads all critical updates as they are made available. I then look at the details and install them as I see fit. The only time my computer reboots is on Friday's at 4:00 a.m. while I am sleeping. It then logs me in, restarts all my critical applications like email and continues on. Don't even lose the webpage I was browsing the night before since it is already loaded for me when I get up.
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                                Wayne Luke
                                The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                                vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                                Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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