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Way back in June 2002.....

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  • Chen
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve Machol
    As Scott said we agree that this has taken too long and this won't happen again with future projects. Sadly we won't have the ability to travel back in time and change how this was done until vB 6 at the earliest.
    I wouldn't count on that... you see if vB6 did include time-travel technology we would have gone back in time already and fixed this mess and wouldn't have this discussion at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • dynamite
    replied
    Wow... this thread got out of hand since I last replied! Steve... I'm still waiting to know when vB 6 is going to be released!

    I actually do miss the updates. They did seem to keep the masses at bay, since everyone felt a little more informed on the status of progress.

    Now for my 2 cents worth. I think the problem with vB 3 is that Jelsoft tried to provide too much at one time. If you have questions about that, then just take a look at http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showpost.php?p=396510&postcount=1, and see for your self what all has been implemented. I really think they would have been better off to create a good stable code base, and then develop a plug-in type system which would allow for easy implementation of updated features (rather than something that would require a lot a hacking like the things from vb.org). Then release plug-ins with updated features as soon as they were complete. This way you have a stable product released quickly, but at the same time can provide your customers with regular updates with the features they want without the entire process becoming too cumbersome because one part is slowing down the development of the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Dave#
    With respect all involved in VB3 all we need is someone to offer James/John a significant amount of cash for the VB2 source code then release it to the Open Source Community, then we can fork a new project and develop it as fast as we like

    Anyone for Open-VB3?
    heh that would be nice

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave#
    replied
    With respect all involved in VB3 all we need is someone to offer James/John a significant amount of cash for the VB2 source code then release it to the Open Source Community, then we can fork a new project and develop it as fast as we like

    Anyone for Open-VB3?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sven
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve Machol
    We owe our customers good quality software and excellent support. Sometimes we do better than at other times.

    What I think is being missed here is that we already have stated that we agree this process has taken too long and that we are making changes to ensure this doesn't happen again. In the final analysis all we can do s to try to continue to improve. There really isn't much we can do about the past.
    And what's currently being missed here is a status update. I think that many customers will stop complaining if they'd know what the current status is.

    Maybe you should think about a weekly announcement regarding the progress being made?

    Leave a comment:


  • iDavid
    replied
    Originally posted by Tolitz
    they also think that RC1 should come out with the new style built-in ...
    If that's not the case it's not an RC.

    Leave a comment:


  • mafo0
    replied
    I'm just hoping the new style is as user-friendly and intuitive as that of the newest versions of IPB. I dont' care if it takes past the end of the year if they put that kind of work into it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tolitz
    replied
    Expectations are always high when people think they are paying for beta software when they're not... IMHO, it wouldn't have made a difference if vB3 were tested exclusively inhouse, or if they trickled updates every 3 months, or have released fewer betas ... wouldn't have made a difference if the current iteration were beta 3 or beta 33 - people would still demand that the final version be released right this instant because they are entitled to it... there is just no pleasing everyone

    People want RC1 immediately, yet they also want the new style available too, and they also think that RC1 should come out with the new style built-in ... and they want it now... when the new style does eventually come out, I'll wager it'll get pigeonholed almost as much as the delays in releasing it... people will say Jelsoft shouldn't have rushed it and should have improved it some more, some people will say all this wait for such a crappy style was not worth it... we all know it's gonna happen, folks
    Last edited by Tolitz; Mon 27 Oct '03, 10:57am.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bema Jinn
    replied
    EVERY company makes mistakes, and EVERY software/gaming/other computer related companies also push back their release dates. usually they only mess it up this bad once, and from then on are great at hitting their dates.

    Let's look at this as a way forward, for customers and devs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike Warner
    replied
    I also used to use UBB, but the fact that vB3 has taken so long is not putting me off vBulletin. vB3 certainly is a long time coming, but it will be worth it. I just want the vB devs to think about timescales a bit more in future - something they have already taken note off anyway.

    vBulletin forum software is the best IMHO, I just hope it isn't another year till vB3 - there are feautres I really want to use on my forums, but I am not willing to install a beta version (don't have time for updates etc).

    Leave a comment:


  • Kathy
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve Machol
    Kathy, you know I love you but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. We owe our customers good quality software and excellent support. Sometimes we do better than at other times.
    And Steve you know that I love you too but I'm gonna have to explain further to defend my statement. Jelsoft has provided its customers the software and support (awesome support I might add) with their license purchase. Jelsoft could stop production tomorrow on VB3 and it would not be a breach of contract with their customers.

    You *have* provided your customers with good quality software and excellent support.


    Originally posted by Steve Machol
    What I think is being missed here is that we already have stated that we agree this process has taken too long and that we are making changes to ensure this doesn't happen again. In the final analysis all we can do s to try to continue to improve. There really isn't much we can do about the past.
    Exactly. The point is missed. A dead horse beaten.

    You guys deserve respect for providing support on existing software while developing an entirely new project. I'm here to applaud your efforts and praise that you have entered into dialogue on this thread when it wasn't required.

    I'm here to applaud. Thanks Steve.

    Leave a comment:


  • rylin
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne Luke
    Certainly looks like you are asking for them to me.
    I'm not.
    I'm just stating that we haven't really seen anything more than "we'll look into it". (At least, I haven't seen anything more than that. If there's been something more concrete posted, then I've missed it)

    I just tend to get wary around companies that try releasing something when don't have a good idea on what proper release management is.

    There's a difference between "solid deadlines and clearer release-guidelines is something we have on the list" and "here's our entire release schedule, along with dates, module-ownership etc.".

    Letting your customers know that you're actually looking at solving the problem inspires more confidence than empty words.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Machol
    replied
    Originally posted by Kathy
    Jelsoft owes its customers nothing.
    Kathy, you know I love you but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. We owe our customers good quality software and excellent support. Sometimes we do better than at other times.

    What I think is being missed here is that we already have stated that we agree this process has taken too long and that we are making changes to ensure this doesn't happen again. In the final analysis all we can do s to try to continue to improve. There really isn't much we can do about the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wayne Luke
    replied
    Originally posted by rylin
    I never claimed i was entitled to jelsoft's project guidelines, nor would i be interested in having them.
    Originally posted by rylin
    While we've heard that jelsoft intend to rework their release methods, we still don't know how.
    Certainly looks like you are asking for them to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • rylin
    replied
    Originally posted by the Sandman
    Pointing them out once or twice...maybe. Dwelling on them over and over after the vB Staff has openly admitted the need for improvement - Unproductive at best, maybe even counterproductive. Criticism *can* be a tool, but it *shouldn't* be a club. Stop hitting them in the head with it already...we all get it!
    How many people on these forums do you think are working on projects of their own?
    How many do you think are likely to follow in bad footsteps? (Improper release methods etc.)
    People should strive for improvement for everyone, not just do what they think works.

    Efficiency is a good thing, and I know I've picked up a lot of things from browsing the web.. there's no reason others aren't looking for ideas and/or guidelines either.

    Leave a comment:

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