Way back in June 2002.....

[Floris]

Well. Hate to rebump this (not that it was down the list at all)... but I thought I should add my 2 dimes worth after reading this thread the past couple of days.

2 dimes worth.
Yes I am a pissed about the release schedule. Saying that... The devs have pretty much said they are as well. Do you think they want to work under an assumption that everyone is pissed at them? They know the whole thing is a fiasco but its a bit too late to do anything about it other than ride it out. Ill bet my license that they won't allow the same thing to happen next time. My vote is to have them focus on getting the final out rather than read these threads or post new release cycle guidelines. Hell... if I were a vB dev I would want to commit Hara-kiri with a dull spoon after visiting this thread. How productive would you be?

Free boards
Free boards are coming along very nicely. Last I saw phpbb2.2 it was looking very sweet. Though I still do some developing with phpbb2 and have one on my site... I got a little fed up with the 'Don't ask about development cycles, release dates, and feature sets because we are free and you are damn lucky to be using us' attitude that was thrown around a lot... so I have recently came over to vB so that I can feel like a customer instead of a leech.

My Jerry Springer Close
Being a developer... I can be pissed at the unprofessional way this has been handled... but being a developer... I can understand that they are doing everything they can to do the best for their customers... and at the end of the day... that is what is important. Letting the devs know your unhappy about the situation is productive. Regurgitating the negativity over and over is (at best) unproductive (at worst) delays the release that much more.

Take care and try to love one another. (Isn't that what Jerry would say?)

nJoy

I doubt you will get accurate Jelsoft release dates, dev cycles or feature sets

[the geek]

phew

Well. Hate to rebump this (not that it was down the list at all)... but I thought I should add my 2 dimes worth after reading this thread the past couple of days.

2 dimes worth.
Yes I am a pissed about the release schedule. Saying that... The devs have pretty much said they are as well. Do you think they want to work under an assumption that everyone is pissed at them? They know the whole thing is a fiasco but its a bit too late to do anything about it other than ride it out. Ill bet my license that they won't allow the same thing to happen next time. My vote is to have them focus on getting the final out rather than read these threads or post new release cycle guidelines. Hell... if I were a vB dev I would want to commit Hara-kiri with a dull spoon after visiting this thread. How productive would you be?

Free boards
Free boards are coming along very nicely. Last I saw phpbb2.2 it was looking very sweet. Though I still do some developing with phpbb2 and have one on my site... I got a little fed up with the 'Don't ask about development cycles, release dates, and feature sets because we are free and you are damn lucky to be using us' attitude that was thrown around a lot... so I have recently came over to vB so that I can feel like a customer instead of a leech.

My Jerry Springer Close
Being a developer... I can be pissed at the unprofessional way this has been handled... but being a developer... I can understand that they are doing everything they can to do the best for their customers... and at the end of the day... that is what is important. Letting the devs know your unhappy about the situation is productive. Regurgitating the negativity over and over is (at best) unproductive (at worst) delays the release that much more.

Take care and try to love one another. (Isn't that what Jerry would say?)

nJoy

I agree waiting until RC to put in the new style might have been a misteak, theres no changing it now. As with the time it took to get to this point in development.

The developers have done a great job of coding vB 3 and at this point fixing bugs and getting the last few issues resolved. I was very happy the frist time I saw the source code, it is so much cleaner then vB 2...

I am happy that everyone on the team agrees vB 3 is taking to long, thats a steap in the right direction and I can not wait to see what will be done about it. For now I say leave them be and let them get vB 3 gold released. The changes will come but right now getting the software out is most important.

[HexOnxOnx]

Heretic said that alot of people were upset, well I am betting alot more people than that are happy. We will have a final sometime around Christmas, that is good enough for me, good enough that I bought another license last week when people were discussing multiple license discounts in another thread.

[mafo0]

Considering the fact that vB2 is still a better board than any of the free ones, customers of vBulletin have little room to complain about vB3 not being RC.

While I am not in advocacy of Dev bashing, I would like to point out that the newest versions of IPB are equal to, and in some ways surpass, the features of vb2. Of course, vb2 surpasses IPB in some ways too, but right now there is no clear cut "winner" as far as features go. vB, of course, has 1000 times better support and hacks etc etc, but in a raw install its a close call.

[Tolitz]

The fact this thread is 5 pages long, and the issue keeps coming up should speak volumes. It's not a fluke. A lot of people are upset.

Nah, the only thing this thread proves is that you can never please everyone

[tgillespie]

no, everyone's a realist.

Jelsoft is a business. They have obligations to keep. Granted, they do not need to release the RC at any time if they wish not to.

However the free boards are looking better and better each day, and with every implied deadline pushed back, more and more customers are getting fed up.

The fact this thread is 5 pages long, and the issue keeps coming up should speak volumes. It's not a fluke. A lot of people are upset.

Considering the fact that vB2 is still a better board than any of the free ones, customers of vBulletin have little room to complain about vB3 not being RC. When people purchase a vBulletin license, Jelsoft mentions nothing of vB3 because it is not their official product and shouldn't be expected just yet. Go ahead and switch to you're free board, I don't think vBulletin would be missing much.

[Dave#]

no, everyone's a realist.

Jelsoft is a business. They have obligations to keep. Granted, they do not need to release the RC at any time if they wish not to.

However the free boards are looking better and better each day, and with every implied deadline pushed back, more and more customers are getting fed up.

The fact this thread is 5 pages long, and the issue keeps coming up should speak volumes. It's not a fluke. A lot of people are upset.

I must confess I feel more comfortable with Open Source tham I do with closed source however IMVHO VB2 is still miles ahead of the Open projects even without VB3.

Having said that remember why VB came into existance and lets not go down the same road again

[heretic]

no, everyone's a realist.

Jelsoft is a business. They have obligations to keep. Granted, they do not need to release the RC at any time if they wish not to.

However the free boards are looking better and better each day, and with every implied deadline pushed back, more and more customers are getting fed up.

The fact this thread is 5 pages long, and the issue keeps coming up should speak volumes. It's not a fluke. A lot of people are upset.

[Tolitz]

unbelievable ... everybody's a backseat programmer

too funny

[jpetrovs]

Unbelievable

I just popped in out of curiosity after discontinuing use of this product several months ago due the issues raised in this thread. LOL. Nothing has changed. Upset customers -- Blind loyalists and still NO product. All that's changed is the number on the Beta.

The statement that Jelsoft owes the customer nothing is just priceless!

[heretic]

That's because it doesn't exist yet. We can't give you something that doesn't exist. It's currently being developed.

why wasn't this started at beta 1? that's when you knew the major features.

automakers release concepts. game designers release concepts and screenshots.

there is no reason for it not to exist. how could you design a product with no idea onhow it'll look in the end? that does not make sense, and never will no matter how much you try to rationalize it. Because right now, how I see it, you crammed eleventy billion features into a forum without any sense as to how it'll go together.

I'm sorry, but you guys really need to get your act together. This is basic stuff here. I can't believe you didn't have a style set even in the works until just recently?!?

[Steve Machol]

here's where I carry issue. You've admitted it's taken way too long.

You have yet to even publicly introduce the style set of the boards!

That's because it doesn't exist yet. We can't give you something that doesn't exist. It's currently being developed.

[heretic]

here's where I carry issue. You've admitted it's taken way too long.

You have yet to even publicly introduce the style set of the boards! That is not a minor issue! You have failed to give anything even hinting as to what the style will be, or as to the code that will power it. Integration with our site(s) would be much easier if we knew what to expect.

hell, even a daily blog to let us know you're not out golfing half the week would help. But instead we're sitting here, renewing our licenses, waiting on a product that has no release date, that we have no idea what it will look like, or how it'll fit into our site. We're pumping money to you and getting nothing in return but "soon".

I'd love to be working on a bike, and tell my customer who just dropped 20k that his bike will be done "when it's done".

You owe it to your customers to give them at least an idea of what the RC will be.

[the Sandman]

I wouldn't count on that... you see if vB6 did include time-travel technology we would have gone back in time already and fixed this mess and wouldn't have this discussion at all.

Sorry Chen, but that would create a paradox. If you went back in time and fixed "the mess" then the chain of causality would be broken - it's the mess now that eventually leads to the release of vB6! Sheesh, haven't you ever seen Back to the Future? The only good use for time travel is finding out the result of future sporting events in advance so you can bet on them.