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  • #46
    Do you honestly think your public complaints help the matter one iota?

    Jelsoft owes its customers nothing.

    If they closed up shop tomorrow, shutting down production of VB3 (gasp!) they would have the honorable stable software known to us all as VB2.

    Enough already, okay?

    It will be released when its ready and all the fussing, finger pointing and complaining will not speed up the process.

    Okay then, get back to your own boards.
    Fan Club member for VBulletin Dev and Support Team ;)

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Kathy
      Do you honestly think your public complaints help the matter one iota?

      Jelsoft owes its customers nothing.

      If they closed up shop tomorrow, shutting down production of VB3 (gasp!) they would have the honorable stable software known to us all as VB2.

      Enough already, okay?

      It will be released when its ready and all the fussing, finger pointing and complaining will not speed up the process.

      Okay then, get back to your own boards.
      Pointing out mistakes already made allows for improvement.
      While we've heard that jelsoft intend to rework their release methods, we still don't know how.
      Giving them our thoughts shows them what we want and expect - and that can't be a bad thing, can it?
      My open eyes see everything, and you see nothing. . .
      That forum

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      • #48
        Originally posted by rylin
        Pointing out mistakes already made allows for improvement.
        Pointing them out once or twice...maybe. Dwelling on them over and over after the vB Staff has openly admitted the need for improvement - Unproductive at best, maybe even counterproductive. Criticism *can* be a tool, but it *shouldn't* be a club. Stop hitting them in the head with it already...we all get it!
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        • #49
          Originally posted by rylin
          Pointing out mistakes already made allows for improvement.
          While we've heard that jelsoft intend to rework their release methods, we still don't know how.
          Giving them our thoughts shows them what we want and expect - and that can't be a bad thing, can it?
          A bad thing? Uh, yeah. It can be a bad thing. Its called nagging.

          Do you think you are now entitled to jelsoft project guidelines for your personal approval?

          Don't you think that sounds a bit...err...pompous?



          Enough already.
          Fan Club member for VBulletin Dev and Support Team ;)

          Hysterectomy - GirlsGetGoing.com - Fabulous Fifty

          I'm frequently asked about the skin designer for my forums. ForumSkin.com

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Kathy
            A bad thing? Uh, yeah. It can be a bad thing. Its called nagging.

            Do you think you are now entitled to jelsoft project guidelines for your personal approval?

            Don't you think that sounds a bit...err...pompous?



            Enough already.
            I didn't create the discussion.
            I replied to it - the vb team is capable of just ignoring threads like these.
            The threads aren't only for the vb devs, you know.

            I never claimed i was entitled to jelsoft's project guidelines, nor would i be interested in having them.
            That sure would sound pompous and arrogant, but please. Don't put words in my mouth.
            My open eyes see everything, and you see nothing. . .
            That forum

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            • #51
              Originally posted by the Sandman
              Pointing them out once or twice...maybe. Dwelling on them over and over after the vB Staff has openly admitted the need for improvement - Unproductive at best, maybe even counterproductive. Criticism *can* be a tool, but it *shouldn't* be a club. Stop hitting them in the head with it already...we all get it!
              How many people on these forums do you think are working on projects of their own?
              How many do you think are likely to follow in bad footsteps? (Improper release methods etc.)
              People should strive for improvement for everyone, not just do what they think works.

              Efficiency is a good thing, and I know I've picked up a lot of things from browsing the web.. there's no reason others aren't looking for ideas and/or guidelines either.
              My open eyes see everything, and you see nothing. . .
              That forum

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              • #52
                Originally posted by rylin
                I never claimed i was entitled to jelsoft's project guidelines, nor would i be interested in having them.
                Originally posted by rylin
                While we've heard that jelsoft intend to rework their release methods, we still don't know how.
                Certainly looks like you are asking for them to me.
                Translations provided by Google.

                Wayne Luke
                The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Kathy
                  Jelsoft owes its customers nothing.
                  Kathy, you know I love you but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. We owe our customers good quality software and excellent support. Sometimes we do better than at other times.

                  What I think is being missed here is that we already have stated that we agree this process has taken too long and that we are making changes to ensure this doesn't happen again. In the final analysis all we can do s to try to continue to improve. There really isn't much we can do about the past.
                  Steve Machol, former vBulletin Customer Support Manager (and NOT retired!)
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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                    Certainly looks like you are asking for them to me.
                    I'm not.
                    I'm just stating that we haven't really seen anything more than "we'll look into it". (At least, I haven't seen anything more than that. If there's been something more concrete posted, then I've missed it)

                    I just tend to get wary around companies that try releasing something when don't have a good idea on what proper release management is.

                    There's a difference between "solid deadlines and clearer release-guidelines is something we have on the list" and "here's our entire release schedule, along with dates, module-ownership etc.".

                    Letting your customers know that you're actually looking at solving the problem inspires more confidence than empty words.
                    My open eyes see everything, and you see nothing. . .
                    That forum

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Steve Machol
                      Kathy, you know I love you but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. We owe our customers good quality software and excellent support. Sometimes we do better than at other times.
                      And Steve you know that I love you too but I'm gonna have to explain further to defend my statement. Jelsoft has provided its customers the software and support (awesome support I might add) with their license purchase. Jelsoft could stop production tomorrow on VB3 and it would not be a breach of contract with their customers.

                      You *have* provided your customers with good quality software and excellent support.


                      Originally posted by Steve Machol
                      What I think is being missed here is that we already have stated that we agree this process has taken too long and that we are making changes to ensure this doesn't happen again. In the final analysis all we can do s to try to continue to improve. There really isn't much we can do about the past.
                      Exactly. The point is missed. A dead horse beaten.

                      You guys deserve respect for providing support on existing software while developing an entirely new project. I'm here to applaud your efforts and praise that you have entered into dialogue on this thread when it wasn't required.

                      I'm here to applaud. Thanks Steve.
                      Fan Club member for VBulletin Dev and Support Team ;)

                      Hysterectomy - GirlsGetGoing.com - Fabulous Fifty

                      I'm frequently asked about the skin designer for my forums. ForumSkin.com

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                      • #56
                        I also used to use UBB, but the fact that vB3 has taken so long is not putting me off vBulletin. vB3 certainly is a long time coming, but it will be worth it. I just want the vB devs to think about timescales a bit more in future - something they have already taken note off anyway.

                        vBulletin forum software is the best IMHO, I just hope it isn't another year till vB3 - there are feautres I really want to use on my forums, but I am not willing to install a beta version (don't have time for updates etc).
                        Mike Warner
                        MIGWeb - a Vauxhall Site for Enthusiasts of all Vauxhalls

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                        • #57
                          EVERY company makes mistakes, and EVERY software/gaming/other computer related companies also push back their release dates. usually they only mess it up this bad once, and from then on are great at hitting their dates.

                          Let's look at this as a way forward, for customers and devs.

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                          • #58
                            Expectations are always high when people think they are paying for beta software when they're not... IMHO, it wouldn't have made a difference if vB3 were tested exclusively inhouse, or if they trickled updates every 3 months, or have released fewer betas ... wouldn't have made a difference if the current iteration were beta 3 or beta 33 - people would still demand that the final version be released right this instant because they are entitled to it... there is just no pleasing everyone

                            People want RC1 immediately, yet they also want the new style available too, and they also think that RC1 should come out with the new style built-in ... and they want it now... when the new style does eventually come out, I'll wager it'll get pigeonholed almost as much as the delays in releasing it... people will say Jelsoft shouldn't have rushed it and should have improved it some more, some people will say all this wait for such a crappy style was not worth it... we all know it's gonna happen, folks
                            Last edited by Tolitz; Mon 27 Oct '03, 10:57am.
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                            • #59
                              I'm just hoping the new style is as user-friendly and intuitive as that of the newest versions of IPB. I dont' care if it takes past the end of the year if they put that kind of work into it.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Tolitz
                                they also think that RC1 should come out with the new style built-in ...
                                If that's not the case it's not an RC.

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