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  • #61
    Sheesh, sounds like Slashdot with all this talk of trolls

    I spoke to some kids here in Scotland who download music. I asked them about the RIAA and if they had heard all the stories going around about kids being taken to court? Who the RIAA they said. I assume that about sums up the impact this action has outwith the US, in other words it aint going to have the effect they would like. This whole issue is not about stopping music downloads, it's about money, it's simply another avenue to generate income (profit) into the RIAA bank account. The SCO issues with Linux is the same (hey guys, here is a way to make a fast buck). Please don't take this personal, but only in the good ol US could this happen. I found this article on the BBC website, puts things into perspective I think.

    Illegal file sharing is not "theft" under copyright law. It is copyright "infringement". Theft deprives the owner of the goods. Copyright infringement potentially deprives the owner of revenue. That is all. Even worse is using the term 'piracy'. How can you compare piracy on the high seas (with its associated murder and pillage) with copyright infringement? The record industry wishes us to think in these terms.

    We have a saying in Scotland in political circles "When Tony Blair tries to pull the wool over our eyes, you can be sure it's 75% Nylon"

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Scott MacVicar
      Yes the prices are too high and yes downloading it just now might be the solution. But whats going to happen in the future? More and more people will download it and eventually only a small percentage will buy it and eventually it won't be profitiable enough to produce music and you'll see a drop in the number of artists.

      I think that everyone will agree that what they are doing at the moment is harsh but no one is paying any attention to their previous warnings.
      I haven't read through pages 3-5 of this thread, but I want to make a reply to Scott's post I quoted above.

      Scott, your argument is not very thought-out. You say that because the prices are too high people download the music for free and this will in the end discourage artists in joining the industry so that more music can be created. We live in a dynamic world (it changes), the minority (record labels, artists, creative marketing folks) has to adapt to the majority (millions that download the music for free) - not the other way around. That is simply the nature of the world that we live in. No way around it. The music industry is being stubborn right now and falling behind the technology, instead of filing lawsuits, they need to start thinking and adapting. You cannot make millions of people conform to something as stupid as not downloading music for free and buying each CD for $10-25. Why? Because there are MILLIONS OF THEM. The music industry needs to adapt to the majority and find new creative ways to attract people to buy music - cheaper prices for example. When a CD costs like a nickel or a dime to create and the record labels are selling them for $20 no wonder people are pirating the music. The artists themselves see a very tiny portion of each CD's retail price.
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      • #63
        what i said was hypothetical.

        Yes the RIAA are out of date but pirating music is still wrong, even though people continue to do it.

        I think that all these people being sued will send a signal, all you need is one high profile case where they do attempt to sue a single person for millions and it will be all on the news and people will take the hint.
        Scott MacVicar

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Scott MacVicar
          what i said was hypothetical.

          Yes the RIAA are out of date but pirating music is still wrong, even though people continue to do it.

          I think that all these people being sued will send a signal, all you need is one high profile case where they do attempt to sue a single person for millions and it will be all on the news and people will take the hint.
          It may send a small warning. There are still many ways to get free music out there other than p2p programs. Look at Software activations. Do these stop people from getting pirated copies of XP Pro? Nope.
          http://www.icecreamforum.com

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          • #65
            Originally posted by spiritUNIT004
            If you see, thats why kazaa made the thing called "My Participation". That will make lot of people share. So even if they take down the "biggest" sharers it won'tmatter. Others will start sharing too.

            I also haven't seen so much people scared, I got on kazaa today and its at 4 million users already, I downloaded some movies and it was faster than ever. The point is that the RIAA is no match. If they're, prove it.
            so you admit to illegally downloading content that you deprive artists as well as institutions who provide you with that content in the first place, of the means to make more? So, you advocate stealing/theft just for your own personal enjoyment?

            The more you post, the more you come across as a whiny little teenager and a troll.


            Also, wtf you calling me a troll, well whatever that is.
            If the shoe fits.

            I joined here to tell about the stupid stuff RIAA is doing, and it seem you got a problem with me or something. You've proved iwas wrong in some stuff but not proved it that the RIAA is doing much.
            So you admit that you have nothing to do with Vbulletin; Only to come here to lambast users who agree with RIAA as far as there should be means and ways to recooperate losses due to kids like you? Then continue to pirate/download illegally gotten content just so that you can "prove" something? The only thing you've proven is that troll monicker hanging over your head is rightfully deserved.

            I dont agree with what the RIAA is doing, but they ARE trying to those that are subscribed to them, to protect what is rightfully theirs.


            If you're saying the RIAA is gonna scare people away, what do you know? are you Ms. Cleo or something to tell the future? One thing is being ovious, the RIAA is no match.
            its working isn't it? With all the media attention, people are going to stop using p2p and go back to how they traded originally ( IRC, in person, etc ). RIAA are going to scare enough parents/kids/users to make sure that no US computer is sharing anything via known P2P programs ( they however with this movement will only drive those with a little more "know-how" back to the original channels they were originally traded in )

            If you want to act smart, go act smart at school or where ever you study, I don't care if you know about computers -_-
            Someone who uses "u" instead of you in their sentences lecturing me on "going back to school". Fhe.
            There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Vile
              Uh...It's a bit tough to take on the entire world. Especially when US laws mean nothing in other countries.

              ..."only takes a handful.." - Tell that to the millions of other users that are doing this every day.

              Nice try though.
              Itll scare them enough for the US users to not share anymore , and by then the RIAA will then try to go after those who DOWNLOAD only ( because of computers set-off shore in Scottland or UK, or Asia ). All they need to do is set up a dummy computer in another country and such and they can gather all the Ip's of those who came to "take" their files and claim Berne Convention on those who did.
              There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't

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              • #67
                Originally posted by WizyWyg
                Itll scare them enough for the US users to not share anymore , and by then the RIAA will then try to go after those who DOWNLOAD only ( because of computers set-off shore in Scottland or UK, or Asia ). All they need to do is set up a dummy computer in another country and such and they can gather all the Ip's of those who came to "take" their files and claim Berne Convention on those who did.

                Doubtful, but I guess only time will tell.

                It's not like I think stealing music is a good thing, I just disagree with the methods they have taken as a possible "solution" and I'm quite sure they (methods) will not work.
                Webmaster / Administrator
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                • #68
                  Originally posted by WizyWyg
                  Itll scare them enough for the US users to not share anymore , and by then the RIAA will then try to go after those who DOWNLOAD only ( because of computers set-off shore in Scottland or UK, or Asia ). All they need to do is set up a dummy computer in another country and such and they can gather all the Ip's of those who came to "take" their files and claim Berne Convention on those who did.
                  Not sure I fully understand what you are saying, but the RIAA has no jurisdiction outside the US, under the data protection act. sharing data with organisations such as the RIAA would be deemed unlawful as I understand it. As for the Berne Convention LOL, 1928, 1946, 1971!! I doubt if downloading by electronic means is even covered, however you might note that copyright infringement would result under the convention in seizure of the recordings LOL

                  In the UK, that same 12 y/o would attend a children’s panel, get a ticking off, and that would be it. As it should be with any child under 14. And what about using the correct terminology in this thread, NO ONE has stolen anything, they did not walk into a shop and take something as the RIAA states in it's argument, they committed copyright infringement - there is a BIG difference. In the states it seems to be around $00000000.

                  How can you folks in the US defend this action and the way your kids are being treated, get off your knees and stand up and fight this. There is not one person in this thread that can put their hand on heart and say they have never copied a tape, music from the radio, programme from the TV etc. P2P is simply this generation’s way of doing what you all did as kids.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by centris
                    How can you folks in the US defend this action and the way your kids are being treated, get off your knees and stand up and fight this. There is not one person in this thread that can put their hand on heart and say they have never copied a tape, music from the radio, programme from the TV etc. P2P is simply this generation’s way of doing what you all did as kids.

                    =

                    http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showp...2&postcount=67
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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by centris
                      Not sure I fully understand what you are saying, but the RIAA has no jurisdiction outside the US, under the data protection act. sharing data with organisations such as the RIAA would be deemed unlawful as I understand it. As for the Berne Convention LOL, 1928, 1946, 1971!! I doubt if downloading by electronic means is even covered, however you might note that copyright infringement would result under the convention in seizure of the recordings LOL

                      In the UK, that same 12 y/o would attend a children’s panel, get a ticking off, and that would be it. As it should be with any child under 14. And what about using the correct terminology in this thread, NO ONE has stolen anything, they did not walk into a shop and take something as the RIAA states in it's argument, they committed copyright infringement - there is a BIG difference. In the states it seems to be around $00000000.

                      How can you folks in the US defend this action and the way your kids are being treated, get off your knees and stand up and fight this. There is not one person in this thread that can put their hand on heart and say they have never copied a tape, music from the radio, programme from the TV etc. P2P is simply this generation’s way of doing what you all did as kids.
                      *Agrees*

                      But parent's in the us have other things to worry about

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by centris
                        How can you folks in the US defend this action and the way your kids are being treated, get off your knees and stand up and fight this. There is not one person in this thread that can put their hand on heart and say they have never copied a tape, music from the radio, programme from the TV etc. P2P is simply this generation’s way of doing what you all did as kids.
                        Just a few points:
                        1. Im not in the US,
                        2. I dont have kids, while im also not a kid, im closer to being one than not.
                        3. I _can_ put my hand on my heart and say i have not copied a tape or music from the radio.
                        4. Your "programme from the tv" statement is irrelevant. It is permitted, and every VHS tape you buy has a tax levied on to it as royality that gets paid to some organisation that splits the money between people/organisations that create copyrighted videos and the like.

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                        • #72
                          Also, another note, i do have music on my machine. It was legally purchased via an online downloadable store.

                          There have been cds ripped as well, which may be against some form of copyright laws, but eh, i own it.

                          I have also reserved my right to listen to copyright protected (CCT and the like) cds on my PC and xbox, burning another cd without the CCT.

                          I didnt want to edit my post, i encountered a bug when trying to edit it.

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                          • #73
                            In my opinion, it’s all a big joke orchestrated to scare people. They’ve caught some 300 users so far….. out of how many? Millions….. I know of many friends that have uninstalled their p2p programs because they think they’re going to get caught. The RIAA has successfully placed fear among the senseless music swappers and gained a few dollars along the way. For me……. I laugh. I hope the RIAA has fun with their new BMW cars….. and as for the p2p world….. you have only dented it…. and you will never ever tame the beast.
                            Trent Gillespie Mod Theater Gillespie Photography

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                            • #74
                              @ Scott:

                              I understand you represent a company which licenses software, which is a distrubuted form of media just like music.

                              However, I am worried because you seem to be using language and wording spouted from the PR arms of the RIAA. Copying music is not stealing. Copying Music is covered by copyright law, and someone copying the music breaks civil laws, not criminal laws. You cannot go to prison for copyright infringement. You can if you sell music on which you download, but thats a different kettle of fish. The RIAA haven't managed to invoke the criminal arm of the DMCA because of the problems they are facing just with the basic litigation issues.

                              Please also bear in mind the majority of people who have so far been extorted of their hard earned money have only shared these files for other people to download. They havent themselves been caught downloading files from artists they may or may not have the original cd (license) to use. So the main issue imo is that the RIAA, through misinformation and overpowering threats of litigation against the entire music industry can force anyone (even you!!!) into signing a contract so you don't have to pay $150,000 which says you will never infridge on copyright again. Of course if you do, then you are breaking the law by being in breach of a legally binding contract, which has criminal repercussions.


                              However, and please take this as no dig or offensive comment, but it appears you opinion on this has not been made by you or you've just accepted what the RIAA is above all posibillty of doing wrong and must be correct in it's statements. This is the most worrying part - people do not investigate themselves or find out the whole truths.

                              The vast majority of people who post here respect propriatory software and licenses, as they deal with vB. However the music industry is outdated, and wants to retain and enforce a monopoly of controlled media to consumers. If anything, the RIAAs sloppy actions are effecting the credibility of all licensed and propriatory media based on twisted IP law. The reason these companies exist in the first place is to be middlemen for distrubution - the music industries haven't innovated in so long that technology past them by so fast they couldn't adapt. The means of distrubution is now in the digital age where huge amounts of data can be transfered from one corner of the earth to another with minmal cost. The RIAA would still like you to pretend that this technology doesn't exist, and make you pay for the inflated distrubution costs which have increased over the past 20 years (on CDs alone), whilst (re)production costs have falled.

                              I'm also not justifying download any media from the 'net. Everything is protected by copyright law if you write it yourself, the RIAA arent any different than a 15 year old kid writting his first songs on a guitar in his bedroom, neither party has more rights.

                              Yet the RIAA is getting away with removing what is left of America Freedom, and also being helped by people blinded by their propoganda. And I fear the UK is next.

                              @ Everyone - please open you eyes!
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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by centris
                                Not sure I fully understand what you are saying, but the RIAA has no jurisdiction outside the US, under the data protection act. sharing data with organisations such as the RIAA would be deemed unlawful as I understand it. As for the Berne Convention LOL, 1928, 1946, 1971!! I doubt if downloading by electronic means is even covered, however you might note that copyright infringement would result under the convention in seizure of the recordings LOL
                                DMCA was a sham to begin with. And has come under fire because it actually limits our rights; so I wont go into it. But Berne Convention as with our Copyright Code, is still in effect and I've seen "our" copyright code forced by intellectual property holders, to have people cease and desist their distribution of illegal items or post items/links that are against their copyrights.


                                In the UK, that same 12 y/o would attend a children’s panel, get a ticking off, and that would be it. As it should be with any child under 14. And what about using the correct terminology in this thread, NO ONE has stolen anything, they did not walk into a shop and take something as the RIAA states in it's argument, they committed copyright infringement - there is a BIG difference. In the states it seems to be around $00000000.
                                Fortunately, you have a legal system that does not allow frivolous lawsuits. Remember, America is a SUE First ask questions later nation. We have kids suing other kids here ( StarWars kid )

                                How can you folks in the US defend this action and the way your kids are being treated, get off your knees and stand up and fight this. There is not one person in this thread that can put their hand on heart and say they have never copied a tape, music from the radio, programme from the TV etc. P2P is simply this generation’s way of doing what you all did as kids.
                                It still a crime to distribute items that you do not own legally.
                                There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't

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