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What happend to America?

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  • Steve Machol
    replied
    I do think this thread has run it's course. Once again people find it difficult to debate a point without resorting to insults.

    Leave a comment:


  • Faruk
    replied
    WASHINGTON (Sept. 6) - Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.

    Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaida. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved.

    The belief in the connection persists even though there has been no proof of a link between the two.

    President Bush and members of his administration suggested a link between the two in the months before the war in Iraq. Claims of possible links have never been proven, however.

    Veteran pollsters say the persistent belief of a link between the attacks and Saddam could help explain why public support for the decision to go to war in Iraq has been so resilient despite problems establishing a peaceful country.

    The president frequently has called the Iraq war an important centerpiece in the United States' war on terror. But some members of the administration have said recently they don't believe there is a direct link.

    The Post poll of 1,003 adults was taken Aug. 7-11 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

    A Time magazine/CNN poll released Saturday said most Americans - 71 percent - believe the United States has done a good job in Iraq since the end of major fighting, while 26 percent said it has done a poor job.

    Sixty-three percent said the nation was right in going to war in Iraq and 32 percent said it was wrong. But the Time/CNN poll found Americans more closely split on whether the military action was worth the price in America lives, taxpayer dollars and other costs - 49 percent said yes, 43 percent no and 8 percent were unsure.

    The poll also found Bush's approval down to 52 percent, from 63 percent in May.

    The Time/CNN survey of 1,003 adults was taken Sept. 3-4 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

    Keep in mind:
    Al-Qaeda == muslims
    Saddam == hates muslims

    Just an addendum...

    Leave a comment:


  • bigmattyh
    replied
    Originally posted by Im all to human
    I was talking about the majority of the American public AS I SEE THEM. I have stated may times that this is only what I think. I never claimed that this was fact, and yet many people here are claiming it a fact that I said it was. Do not tell me that I am not correct, for that's not a valid statement. Who can say that how I see things os wrong for me. I never said it was fact, and thus you cannot say that I am throwing around things calling them facts and not supporting them. I NEVER CLAIMED THAT IT WAS FACT, and many of you make the mistake of saying that what you BELIEVE is FACT. That's not true I am sorry to say. I am not trying to make anyone see this my way as I already said. What I started this thread as isn't what it is now. I just stated something I felt, and I wanted to see what other people felt about it as well. I didn't want to debate I wanted to discus. Thanks. Sorry that so many of you took me the wrong way. I am very peaceful by nature, and didn't want to argue anything, but I wont say all that again.
    Tell you what. If I started a thread saying "What has happened to all the black people?" and then went on to say that they were barbaric, senseless jerks, people would jump all over me and they would be right to do so. If you're going to make blanket statements like this, you deserve the onslaught of criticism that you will unleash. As you can also see, it really brings people out of the woodwork who really do believe all the things you said.

    Lastly: If you didn't want to start a debate -- if you just wanted to vent -- then don't post broad, generalized statements that any reasonable person would interpret as potentially insulting in a public forum. You don't get to cut and run. Either make your case based on facts and evidence, or do your venting in your closet.

    Might I recommend to the mods that this thread be closed? There's a lot of insult-hurling going on in this thread, and it really has little productive benefit.

    Leave a comment:


  • rylin
    replied
    Originally posted by KuraFire
    If it wasn't for Europe, America would still be a lovely nation populated by respectful indians living beautiful, peaceful lives. So don't give us your blatant bull**** about how "america saved most countries from disappearing" - everyone can play that game.
    "If it hadn't been for America, " - then yes, history would've been different and the current world would be different.
    "If it hadn't been for ..." - this works for every country, no matter how small. Just look at this:

    If it hadn't been for the Netherlands, the world would've been completely different now. We were the traders of the entire world for several hundred years, we've had control of nearly 1/3rd of the entire planet, were the most famous and rich common people, etc. etc. etc.
    Amen.
    Despite all the technological advances made in the US, the world as it looks today is largely thanks to Europe, Asia and Africa (not in any particular order).

    Leave a comment:


  • Faruk
    replied
    Originally posted by Chaotic Reality
    First off, a debate has no winner; EVER. The best debaters are those who can collect ideas and state them with the ability of backing them up with "factual" information. Debates are for people who want to attempt to wow everyone by how much they read cnn.com, or attempt to sound intellectual, when no one really gives a crap because it's all a waste of time. Debate is just a term for arguing over who has the bigger ego. No one is ever right because there is no right answer to politics/religion, or whatever else.
    A debate has a winner when you can understand the opinion of the other fully, and accept that his/her opinion differs from yours.

    A debate has two winners when both parties achieve said position in the debate, and then try to work out a solution that has a mutual satisfaction for both parties involved, as a result.

    Debating isn't about who is right or wrong. Debating is about understanding each other. Debating is simply communicating with opinions. You don't win in communication unless all parties involved end up happier in the end.

    The only true victory in life is when both parties are happy. If one defeats the other (in whatever it is, except for sports), it is not victory, but it is a display of having no peace, no patience, no inner rest or satisfaction.


    Originally posted by Chaotic Reality
    However, I cannot STAND to hear the disrespect this country gets. If it wasn't for America then most countries wouldn't even exist. The only reason North Korea hasn't blown South Korea off the map is because of the US. No, we aren't a perfect country, but no one else will step up to the plate and take our role over, either.
    If it wasn't for Europe, America would still be a lovely nation populated by respectful indians living beautiful, peaceful lives. So don't give us your blatant bull**** about how "america saved most countries from disappearing" - everyone can play that game.
    "If it hadn't been for America, " - then yes, history would've been different and the current world would be different.
    "If it hadn't been for ..." - this works for every country, no matter how small. Just look at this:

    If it hadn't been for the Netherlands, the world would've been completely different now. We were the traders of the entire world for several hundred years, we've had control of nearly 1/3rd of the entire planet, were the most famous and rich common people, etc. etc. etc.
    The Netherlands has over 10.000 years of continued history. The USA has about 400 years. So please, Don't give us that crap of "if it hadn't been for America". You're 9 thousand, 600 years of history behind in having an influence in the world, compared to a tiny little country called The Netherlands. Did you know our entire country is only larger than about 5 states in all of the USA?


    The only reason the US 'saved' South Korea was to fight off Communist North Korea and China. Have you taken a look at South Korea lately? It's hardly doing well at all. So much for 'saving' ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Im all to human
    replied
    I was talking about the majority of the American public AS I SEE THEM. I have stated may times that this is only what I think. I never claimed that this was fact, and yet many people here are claiming it a fact that I said it was. Do not tell me that I am not correct, for that's not a valid statement. Who can say that how I see things os wrong for me. I never said it was fact, and thus you cannot say that I am throwing around things calling them facts and not supporting them. I NEVER CLAIMED THAT IT WAS FACT, and many of you make the mistake of saying that what you BELIEVE is FACT. That's not true I am sorry to say. I am not trying to make anyone see this my way as I already said. What I started this thread as isn't what it is now. I just stated something I felt, and I wanted to see what other people felt about it as well. I didn't want to debate I wanted to discus. Thanks. Sorry that so many of you took me the wrong way. I am very peaceful by nature, and didn't want to argue anything, but I wont say all that again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alcar
    replied
    Yes, every country has their share of pricks. Obviously Australia has Prime Minister John Howard

    When I speak of loathing American's, I'm targeting the Government. The Government is detrimental to the whole of the US, afterall, it is who represents you.

    Haha, North Korea can have Nuclear Weapons for all I care. It's not up to the US to determine who can't have them. The US is a bully, and it breeds bullies.

    Alcar...

    Leave a comment:


  • Vile
    replied
    Originally posted by bigmattyh
    I'd just like to point something out too.

    Every country has its share of pricks.
    Exactly. That and other problems in general exist everywhere. That's what I've been saying from the begining, but these people fail to read, or just look for other excuses.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigmattyh
    replied
    I'd just like to point something out too.

    Every country has its share of pricks. Yeah, even all the countries in Europe, and even Australia. And maybe I'm biased, being from Texas, where the people are generally happy and friendly, but Americans on the whole are helpful, happy, friendly people. We smile a hell of a lot; we don't look down when you're walking down the street and avoid eye contact. No, obviously, not everyone, but on the whole, we're an open, friendly, honest people.

    I've also found that the people who bash on America either a) are generally unhappy and love the scapegoat they've created or b) have never been here so obviously don't know what they're talking about. (Incidentally, I think it's hilarious that so many non-US people accuse Americans of being ignorant of other cultures when the vast majority of them get 100% of their contact with America from the TV. Dur.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Dolby
    replied
    Could it be that our resolution on the problems of today increase with our age and the problems were already there from ages ago? If you look through our history you will see the same things you see today.

    When you are younger your perception of the world is different along with your memories. So it may seem as if the USA or the world in general is degenerating before your eyes but in reality nothing has really changed but your perception and the resolution.
    Last edited by Dolby; Sat 6 Sep '03, 10:28pm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vile
    replied
    Originally posted by Chaotic Reality
    I'm not pro-american, I'm pro-sick-of-everyone-dogging-on-america-for-stupid-reasons-and-not-backing-it-up.

    First off, a debate has no winner; EVER. The best debaters are those who can collect ideas and state them with the ability of backing them up with "factual" information. Debates are for people who want to attempt to wow everyone by how much they read cnn.com, or attempt to sound intellectual, when no one really gives a crap because it's all a waste of time. Debate is just a term for arguing over who has the bigger ego. No one is ever right because there is no right answer to politics/religion, or whatever else.

    However, I cannot STAND to hear the disrespect this country gets. If it wasn't for America then most countries wouldn't even exist. The only reason North Korea hasn't blown South Korea off the map is because of the US. No, we aren't a perfect country, but no one else will step up to the plate and take our role over, either.

    J.
    Right on the spot, but be careful. The n00bs here may think that's the "typical yank" attitude.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chaotic Reality
    replied
    Originally posted by Alcar
    It seems the pro-American's are the only members getting aggressive here. This is exactly like every other debate. For instance, how about the long going debate seen on every single forum about religions? In the end it's always the same - no one comes out the victor. But it's always the pro-Christian/American/BushSupporter/etc that continues to string the argument on and on, while getting aggressive.

    Getting aggressive doesn't help any. It also only proves weakness on their behalf - unable to talk passively. It's also the same in regards with facts. You blindly disregard facts because they don't agree with your opinions, because you're arrogant.

    Personally, I'd like to see Bush burn with America. But I have friends in America that prove to me everyday that not every American is stuck-up. It's the people with power as well as ignorance that tarnish what is good.

    Alcar...
    I'm not pro-american, I'm pro-sick-of-everyone-dogging-on-america-for-stupid-reasons-and-not-backing-it-up.

    First off, a debate has no winner; EVER. The best debaters are those who can collect ideas and state them with the ability of backing them up with "factual" information. Debates are for people who want to attempt to wow everyone by how much they read cnn.com, or attempt to sound intellectual, when no one really gives a crap because it's all a waste of time. Debate is just a term for arguing over who has the bigger ego. No one is ever right because there is no right answer to politics/religion, or whatever else.

    However, I cannot STAND to hear the disrespect this country gets. If it wasn't for America then most countries wouldn't even exist. The only reason North Korea hasn't blown South Korea off the map is because of the US. No, we aren't a perfect country, but no one else will step up to the plate and take our role over, either.

    J.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chaotic Reality
    replied
    Originally posted by Im all to human
    I said typical not all, and also I know very well that these things happen other places as well as much worse, but America claims to be wonderful, and truthfuly I just don't see it. You can think what you will thouhg. I am not trying to change your mind I mearly stated the facts how I see them.
    Facts? What facts? You mean you're stating your opinion, yes. I don't see anyone claiming America is wonderful, maybe the government, or media, the same people that throw words like patriotism and heroism around like candy; it's lost all meaning.

    J.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vile
    replied
    Originally posted by Im all to human
    I said typical not all, and also I know very well that these things happen other places as well as much worse, but America claims to be wonderful, and truthfuly I just don't see it. You can think what you will thouhg. I am not trying to change your mind I mearly stated the facts how I see them.

    "how you see them..." being the key words, considering this is so far from the truth.

    Anyone can spit out bogus rants but unless facts & stats are acutally provided to back them up, they mean nothing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Im all to human
    replied
    Also, I am a woman. For some reason it has been asumed that I am a man. I thought that I would clear that up.

    Leave a comment:

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