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  • #31
    DMCA, Patriot Act
    The "Land of the Free" isn't so Free any more :/
    Ah I understand what you meant now, and I agree with you here. I personally am not willing to give up my liberties in the name of fighting terror. I do, however, understand the reasons behind it. Some people in the US don't mind giving up the possibility of losing some freedoms to feel safer. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

    http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/09/0...tid=126&tid=172
    As I stated earlier, leftist spin. Those sites are leftist spin. I honestly didn't have time to read it all but from what I gather the votes in question were in California. Gore won that state handily, so if Bush has some vast election fraud conspiracy, he didn't do a very good job. As a good friend of mine says "Paranoia will destroy ya"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by rylin
      For example, right after 9/11, bush said "You're either with us or against us.".
      No, I don't side with the Terrorists, but where did my freedom to think what I want go? Where did my freedom to be neutral go?
      The world isn't black on white, it's a ****load of gray.
      You are reffering something one person said.
      Why is it so hard to believe that not everyone here voted for the guy.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by Vile
        You are reffering something one person said.
        Why is it so hard to believe that not everyone here voted for the guy.
        Like it or not, he represents your entire nation.
        His word is more or less as good as law, and when one of the biggest armies in the world says that "You're either with or against us", mooning them and telling them to fsck off is a rather stupid thing to do.
        My open eyes see everything, and you see nothing. . .
        That forum

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        • #34
          The grand display of stupidity by some of the mental midgets in this thread has been most enjoyable. Thanks for the laughs.

          You bash America for being greedy, yet most nations accept entitlements that we generously mete out in billions upon billions. As long as your countries are begging, not negotiating assistance and trade tariffs from us in some form or fashion, you need to look at yourself as being hypocritical instead of us being greedy.

          You write of superiority complexes. We are the most powerful nation to ever occupy the face of the earth. Do we use those means to expand our empire like every other country in history? We have the power to make any other nation on the face of the earth do our bidding, yet we elect to take the diplomatic approach and respect their sovereignty.

          The American government isn’t acting poorly right now, we just don’t care what you have to say if you’re not ready to roll up your sleeves and join the fray. Having the heads of state for the French or Germans dictate American policy at this moment is akin to having the governors from Texas, California, New York, or Florida dictate economic policy for France or Germany. Think that would go over well?

          Others in this thread are confusing neutrality with being cowards. A neutral entity doesn’t publicly voice an opinion on an issue; they are by definition, “neutral”. Cowards, on the other hand, scream to high heaven about it until it comes to walk the walk, then they run from the confrontation (i.e. France & Germany). If France, German, or other nation’s diplomats disagree with the US, let them join forces with Al Qaeda or one of our other militant enemies. If all they want to do is provide commentary from the sidelines, why should we care what they have to say? They are clearly too big of cowards to put their money where their mouths are one way or the other.

          The original poster is the worst of all. It’s fine to want our country to improve, but we have no need to grovel at the feet of the world citizenry asking for forgiveness. You’re an embarrassment that I can only hope is too young to know better or too stupid to get it. The rest of you bashers just can't face reality.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by rylin
            Like it or not, he represents your entire nation.
            His word is more or less as good as law, and when one of the biggest armies in the world says that "You're either with or against us", mooning them and telling them to fsck off is a rather stupid thing to do.
            Agreed, and that's why he got my support during that time, and during the war.

            Originally posted by PDT816
            The grand display of stupidity by some of the mental midgets in this thread has been most enjoyable. Thanks for the laughs.

            It's about time people with some actual logic come and back me up on this.
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            • #36
              Originally posted by PDT816
              The grand display of stupidity by some of the mental midgets in this thread has been most enjoyable. Thanks for the laughs.

              You bash America for being greedy, yet most nations accept entitlements that we generously mete out in billions upon billions. As long as your countries are begging, not negotiating assistance and trade tariffs from us in some form or fashion, you need to look at yourself as being hypocritical instead of us being greedy.

              You write of superiority complexes. We are the most powerful nation to ever occupy the face of the earth. Do we use those means to expand our empire like every other country in history? We have the power to make any other nation on the face of the earth do our bidding, yet we elect to take the diplomatic approach and respect their sovereignty.

              The American government isn’t acting poorly right now, we just don’t care what you have to say if you’re not ready to roll up your sleeves and join the fray. Having the heads of state for the French or Germans dictate American policy at this moment is akin to having the governors from Texas, California, New York, or Florida dictate economic policy for France or Germany. Think that would go over well?

              Others in this thread are confusing neutrality with being cowards. A neutral entity doesn’t publicly voice an opinion on an issue; they are by definition, “neutral”. Cowards, on the other hand, scream to high heaven about it until it comes to walk the walk, then they run from the confrontation (i.e. France & Germany). If France, German, or other nation’s diplomats disagree with the US, let them join forces with Al Qaeda or one of our other militant enemies. If all they want to do is provide commentary from the sidelines, why should we care what they have to say? They are clearly too big of cowards to put their money where their mouths are one way or the other.

              The original poster is the worst of all. It’s fine to want our country to improve, but we have no need to grovel at the feet of the world citizenry asking for forgiveness. You’re an embarrassment that I can only hope is too young to know better or too stupid to get it. The rest of you bashers just can't face reality.

              What he said. Amen brother.

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              • #37
                When I saw this thread title I thoght:

                What?... What has happened to America?
                Has someone sold it on eBay?
                Sig? What sig?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by PDT816
                  You write of superiority complexes. We are the most powerful nation to ever occupy the face of the earth. .
                  Hah, thanks for proving my point... don't make an argument of "we have the clout, so you should thank your gods we don't use it, weaklings!" ... that is the kind of attitude that earns the US its enemies. The arrogance hidden behind diplomacy is transparent and doesn't always fool everyone.

                  Originally posted by PDT816
                  We are the most powerful nation to ever occupy the face of the earth. Do we use those means to expand our empire like every other country in history? We have the power to make any other nation on the face of the earth do our bidding
                  Hitler made that mistake, look what happened to him ... The US is anything but it isn't stupid ... it won't cause a potential nuclear holocaust just to prove it is the most powerful country in military terms, and there is really no guarantee it will win either, when all other countries gang up on it ... again, remember Hitler...

                  Regardless of that lengthy diatribe, if you refuse to admit that the US has flaws and reiterate that what is happening to the country right now is all good and swell, and there is absolutely NOTHING that needs to be changed, then you must be the one who has to wake up and face reality. Sometimes we get so caught up in our patriotism that we become close-minded about the issues happening at home, always presenting the argument, "Well, it's happening everywhere anyway, so why bother? We're better than the rest of them!" ...

                  It always seems that anyone who doesn't kiss the feet of US superiority is either a coward or a terrorist (or a liberal) ... anything that has to do with questioning the United States has become a "pointless" topic. Things like, "Hey, it's all good back here, so shut the frell up before I nuke yer country" ...

                  And the funny thing is it wasn't always like this. So things have changed... For the better? Or for the worse? Depends on how patriotic you are, I guess

                  I don't consider the US greedy. I think we have been very generous through the years and that's one of the things I love about this country. What I don't like is the current government (and many of the people) trying to break that generous streak by trying to muscle its own affairs overseas just because "everyone owes them something." Kinda like the Godfather collecting favors by the bushel for his own intentions.

                  And yes, the US does have superiority complex. Otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about how much better we are than everyone else while trying to downplay our own shortcomings...
                  Last edited by Tolitz; Fri 5 Sep '03, 1:02pm.
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Kriptic
                    America as a country gives out more aid to other countries then anyone else in the world...bar none. I'm sure theres a way to throw some negative spin on that.
                    Having the largest economy on the world makes that much more possible to you, duh. If you look at this in the right perspective, the USA isn't such a saint anymore compared to other nations. It gives a good amount of aid, but not so insanely much that it deserves being bragged about or anything.

                    What's much worse, however, is the fact that your beloved country funds warmonger-nations and dictator-like countries, solely for their own purposes. The only real reason the American government ever does anything, is self-improvement. Wherever a country with oil or diamonds or any other important raw material is found, America's government will act in whatever way is most beneficial to themselves. Is the dictator-leader of the country willing to share most of his oil with the USA, then you fund him. Is he not, then you throw all media on him and wage war.

                    The media plays a big part in this. They are sent to all locations where they can make reports to make the USA Gov. look good, and the Gov. tries its best to keep all of its foul deed hidden as much as possible. Of course, some of them are far too big to be hidden, so they try to make it look like they're really doing a good thing (see: Israel), even though they're not.

                    It's the fact that quite a lot of people see through the façade, that makes so many people dislike the USA. However, I'll agree that too many people make little to no distinction between the American Government, and the actual American people. Contrary to that, though, we must acknowledge the fact that Your Government Represents You. Much as you may like it or not, a majority voted for your monkey- I mean, president, and because of at least 50%~ of your fellow countrymen and -women, your country has started to look worse and worse due to his decisions and actions and legislations. We know that not all Americans are as blatantly stupid as a select but very prominent few show, but there's such an undisputably huge mass of people in your country that really doesn't have a clue, that it's only logical that so many people dislike the nation. The way you come off to other countries is very simply summarized:

                    * We are good
                    * We are right in our cause
                    * If you don't like us, we see you as our enemy
                    * We should be the World's police, to maintain peace and what not

                    Last I checked, not a single country asked the USA -ever- to be Earth's police force. Your government imposed that function upon itself, for whatever reason. And then you get all riled up when people let you know that THEY DON'T F**KIN' LIKE THAT!

                    Originally posted by Kriptic
                    The threat of US power is about the only thing that keeps petty dictators from steamrolling other countries left and right. Say what you want but the US uses its power in about as benevolent a way as possible. If we, as a country, were half as greedy as some people seem to think, the US would own a lot more surface area around the world then it does now.
                    You'd also have every country in the entire world turned against you in no time, we'd have World War 3, the USA would be completely trampled, and where will you be then?
                    It's not so much "the threat of US power" that scares them, it's the fact that most countries see the US (as) abusing their power right and left, and THAT scares them. They're like a little kid playing with some C4 and detonators.

                    Originally posted by Kriptic
                    I'm sure this may come off as arrogant to some and feel that it proves their point. I apologize if thats the way it sounds, I just get tired of seeing the "Bash America and Bush" bandwagon.

                    Proud to be an American!!
                    Your post came off as pretty arrogant to me, yup. What's much more important, though, and another reason for all the `America-bashing`, is the fact that for up to 90% of the cases, whenever an American talks about America, he or she comes off arrogant. And nearly EVERY SINGLE TIME you talk to someone who is "Proud to be an American!!", they come off hugely arrogant and cocky and seem to find every non-american to be a lesser human. And you wonder why people bash America so much....

                    There are a lot of great people in America, really lots of 'm. I have many friends in the States that I like very much. But when it comes to patriotism and the like, they stay in the back and be quiet, because they're almost ashamed. Not so much ashamed of being an American, but ashamed of having so many people in their country and having a government that they should well be ashamed of.

                    I'm hardly proud to be Dutch (or Dutch-Turkish if you will, though I am proud of my Turkish heritage, but that's a whole 'nother story). The Netherlands are hardly what you would call a Heroic or Noble country. We've done plenty of horrible things in the past. We played a hugely chicken-ish role in the whole Iraq-conflict. But the Dutch are a much nicer people if you ask me, on the whole. They don't look down on everyone, in my experience. Plus, it's absolutely great to live here, aside of the very high prices for houses / apartments etc.
                    Two of my closest friends, who are both American, visited the NL this summer, and both of them are of the firm opinion that it's much nicer living here, in nearly every aspect (they were shop-loving girls so they only didn't like the fact that our stores here aren't open on all sundays of a month ^_^). For one thing, you won't get arrested here if you publicly criticize the government...

                    Land of the Free? The Netherlands, baby Hell, compared to the USA, stuff like college here is free

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Im all to human
                      Don't get me wrong... I wouldn't want to live any other place.

                      I find myself so often wondering why it is that most of humanity, but especially American society is unable to advance forward from what I would call a barbaric stand point on the proper treatment of human beings.

                      Every day I see examples of callus disregard for ones fellow man. What happen to people helping one another out of the decency of ones heart? Is it not unreasonable to think that we are all responsible in some way for the downfall of proper treatment of our fellow Americans. None of us can honestly claim to be Innocent of doing some injustice on our fellow man.

                      Is there simply no time in this fast past society to care about others? It sickens me that the glob of senseless, self motivated, egotistical, jerks of the world are taking over. There is a lack of decency here that shouldn't have been allowed to develop in a society that clams to be so advanced.
                      Leaders in the scientific community think stupidity is a disease. I noticed that aprroximately 1/4 of the American population suffers from stupidity disorder. That should explain it. Not to mention 1/4 of the US population doesn't support Bush.

                      I guess it is natural as it was the same during WW2. People were protesting Roosevelt and Truman calling them warmongers. lol

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                      • #41
                        Tolitz,



                        You add yet another post that makes you look even more foolish…

                        The “our way or the highway” mentality is one that has been used frequently throughout history and is still being implemented by governments today. The US just isn’t one of them – that’s the point Einstein. How you grab it out of thin air that this is a reason other countries hate us for it is absurd and something that you have manufactured in your own mind.

                        No one is downplaying our shortcomings either, you guys just haven’t listed any of them yet.

                        That short enough for you?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by PDT816
                          Tolitz,
                          You add yet another post that makes you look even more foolish…
                          Hey, no problem, anything to boost your ego dude, just let me know
                          Originally posted by PDT816
                          No one is downplaying our shortcomings either, you guys just haven’t listed any of them yet.
                          Another sign of you not paying attention ... remove that US flag in front of your face and look real hard ... the US may be misunderstood at times, but it isn't faultless ... if you can't see them, then I doubt listing them would be more helpful ... besides, you'll always say "there is nothing wrong with that" to each of them anyway, which entirely defeats the purpose...

                          But hey, I guess being sheep is less stressful nowadays... cheers
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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ShiningArcanine
                            I noticed that aprroximately 1/4 of the American population suffers from stupidity disorder. That should explain it. Not to mention 1/4 of the US population doesn't support Bush.
                            Here's a hint to one of them, PDT816, just to guide you in the right direction in case you still have those blinders on
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                            • #44
                              Tolitz

                              Nice to see that you’ve gone from stating fabrications as facts to the third grade argument of calling those that don’t agree with you sheep.

                              Either bring something to the table, or accept defeat like a man.
                              KuraFire

                              You had some valid points in your argument in the percentages of GNP devoted to the amount of foreign aid provided, but there are some problems here as well.

                              Americans have to budget foreign aid and military spending out of the same economy; and they compete for the same dollar. We have to spend 5 times more on our military than would normally be required to not only protect our own soil, but yours as well, which brings us to your next point.

                              Last I checked, not a single country asked the USA -ever- to be Earth's police force. Your government imposed that function upon itself, for whatever reason. And then you get all riled up when people let you know that THEY DON'T F**KIN' LIKE THAT!
                              This is where you lose me. Countries ask for our assistance all-day, every single day to be the world’s police force. Ever spend any time in the US State Department or in an American Embassy? The UN expects it both in military might/experience and in financial contribution. NATO has it by treaty that dictates that we have a mutual protection pact with the other member nations.

                              Usually, the argument is that we are too selective in our choices as to when and where to act on the requests. I seem to remember many European nations asking for us to assist them in WWII, The Netherlands included.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by PDT816
                                Tolitz
                                Nice to see that you’ve gone from stating fabrications as facts to the third grade argument of calling those that don’t agree with you sheep.

                                Either bring something to the table, or accept defeat like a man.
                                Haha, man, you're funny ... you continue to ignore some of what I said (and what others said) and dismiss it as fabrication, and there is always a lace of insult to boot - very American ... I didn't know this was a competition, but okay ... I guess my observations have to be squelched in order for the US to come out smelling like a rose. And as we all know, one thing the US can't take is criticism.

                                Good luck with your perfect America... here's hoping our Rome wouldn't burn to the ground
                                Last edited by Tolitz; Fri 5 Sep '03, 2:40pm.
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