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  • Internet Explorer Hacks

    Ok, before anyone tells me "use Netscape" "use Mozilla", "use Opera", etc. etc. those browsers are slow, varying degrees of unstable, and do not display HTML the way I like them to.


    Anyway, my question is, with all the hackers and crackers out there breaking even the most elaborate of copy protections, why has NOBODY written hacks for Internet Explorer 6 which fix the interface?

    Why is it that I am typing a message and flick the Scroll Wheel on my mouse and IE suddenly thinks I want to go to the Previous page?

    Why is it that if the text box I am typing in loses focus and I press Backspace, IE things I want to go to the Previous page?

    Why is it that IE thinks that if I press Escape when I am typing within a text box, the appropriate behavior of the program should be to delete the entire contents of the text box?


    All of this wouldn't be so bad if, no matter what settings I have for IE, it ALWAYS tries to fetch the latest version of a page, especially trying to reload any Java and/or dumping the contents of forms?

    Why can the "Back" and "Forward" buttons not do as they are labeled?


    Why won't someone fix this crap? It can't really be that difficult, can it?
    I'm guessing it's in browseui.dll.
    Last edited by feldon23; Thu 12 Jun '03, 7:05am.

  • #2
    Microsoft isn't even going to fix the user interface issues in Internet Explorer, why should anyone else? In fact, Microsoft announced the other day that 6.0 SP1 is the last public release of IE.

    If you don't want to switch to something like Mozilla Firebird which is faster that IE and hasn't crashed on me a single time yet then look into an IE front-end like Netcaptor.

    Oh, Firebird has an interface built with XUL which is based on XML. Don't like something, you just go in and change it yourself. Need a new feature? Only takes a few minutes to add it.
    Translations provided by Google.

    Wayne Luke
    The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
    vBulletin 5 API

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by feldon23
      Why is it that I am typing a message and flick the Scroll Wheel on my mouse and IE suddenly thinks I want to go to the Previous page?
      It doesn't do that for me.
      Originally posted by feldon23
      Why is it that if the text box I am typing in loses focus and I press Backspace, IE things I want to go to the Previous page?
      Because that is the designed behaviour?
      Originally posted by feldon23
      Why is it that IE thinks that if I press Escape when I am typing within a text box, the appropriate behavior of the program should be to delete the entire contents of the text box?
      Not for me.
      Originally posted by feldon23
      All of this wouldn't be so bad if, no matter what settings I have for IE, it ALWAYS tries to fetch the latest version of a page, especially trying to reload any Java and/or dumping the contents of forms?
      I suppose you would rather see outdated, cached versions of pages?

      The last one I agree with though, it's very annoying when it wipes out form data when you press "Back".
      Originally posted by feldon23
      Why can the "Back" and "Forward" buttons not do as they are labeled?
      They don't?
      Originally posted by feldon23
      Why won't someone fix this crap? It can't really be that difficult, can it?
      I'm guessing it's in browseui.dll.
      Try asking Microsoft.

      Either use IE and stop complaining, or find another program that works the way you want it to... no one is forcing you to use IE.

      Comment


      • #4

        Quote:

        Originally Posted by feldon23
        Why is it that if the text box I am typing in loses focus and I press Backspace, IE things I want to go to the Previous page?

        Originally posted by Marco
        Because that is the designed behaviour?
        It's not the behavior it should have though. Why in the hell would anyone use Backspace to browse the web? Don't they have a mouse?
        Quote: Originally Posted by feldon23
        Why is it that IE thinks that if I press Escape when I am typing within a text box, the appropriate behavior of the program should be to delete the entire contents of the text box?
        Originally posted by Marco
        Not for me.
        I just reproduced it in the Quick Reply box. So it's a bug.
        Quote: Originally Posted by feldon23
        All of this wouldn't be so bad if, no matter what settings I have for IE, it ALWAYS tries to fetch the latest version of a page, especially trying to reload any Java and/or dumping the contents of forms?
        Originally posted by Marco
        I suppose you would rather see outdated, cached versions of pages?
        Outdated? No. Cached? Yes. For some reason, I would like the Setting indicated below to do exactly what I tell it to do. Imagine!



        Quote: Originally Posted by feldon23
        Why can the "Back" and "Forward" buttons not do as they are labeled?
        Originally posted by Marco
        They don't?
        No, they don't. The Back and Forward buttons in IE should be labeled
        Latest uncached version of prior History Entry
        and
        Lastest uncached version of next History Entry
        because that's what they do. They don't take you where you were, they take you to a newly requested, flushed and refreshed version of where you were.

        Do you have any idea how much of a nightmare IE6's ridiculous Back-but-not-really-Back system is for PHP programmers?
        Quote: Originally Posted by feldon23
        Why won't someone fix this crap? It can't really be that difficult, can it?
        I'm guessing it's in browseui.dll.
        Originally posted by Marco
        Try asking Microsoft.
        Microsoft does not fix bugs at user request. They barely fix bugs at developer request. Look at all the bugs in DirectX 7 that still exist in DirectX 9 despite cries and requests from developers. Even in Windows XP, Windows often forgets which layout style you want each window to have when browsing files.

        Originally posted by Marco
        Either use IE and stop complaining, or find another program that works the way you want it to... no one is forcing you to use IE.
        Who the hell asked you?

        And my message at the top clearly said "if you are just going to tell me to use another browser, please skip this thread". Guess you can't follow directions.

        And there is no other program that works the way I want it to. IE6 displays pages quickly and properly, even tolerating the occasional missing </td> tag (Netscape practically blows up or just displays a blank page).

        Originally posted by Wayne Luke
        Microsoft isn't even going to fix the user interface issues in Internet Explorer, why should anyone else?
        Hmm. Nobody pays hackers to write hacks for all these programs. Yet there are thousands of em working. Why can't one of them section off 2 hours out of his busy schedule to debug IE6?

        Originally posted by Wayne Luke
        Oh, Firebird has an interface built with XUL which is based on XML. Don't like something, you just go in and change it yourself. Need a new feature? Only takes a few minutes to add it.
        So you are telling me that Mozilla Firebird does NOT use the same Windows HTML Textarea editor that IE and other browsers use?

        You're telling me that pressing Backspace in Mozilla Firebird does not take you to a refreshed/flushed version of the previous page provided there is any text in any text/textarea field on the current page?

        Awesome. I'll download it and give it a genuine shot.

        Originally posted by Wayne Luke
        then look into an IE front-end like Netcaptor.
        Do you know if Netcaptor overrides IE's ridiculous keyboard shortcut settings?

        Comment


        • #5
          When you hit the Shift key and scroll up or down, the browser detects it as a back or forward click ... it's not a bug, it's a shortcut, albeit an annoying one... so the times when you type and "flick" the scroll wheel, you were actually holding down the Shift key...

          The Backspace key is also a shortcut for the Back button on the browser, depending on what field is highlighted or the point of priority... if you are typing in text box, there is no reason for the backspace key to function as a back button unless you accidentally hit Tab to switch to either a link or a button (another shortcut), which will trigger the back key to function as a back button (what else would it function as?)...

          The Escape key is yet another shortcut ... why would anyone hit Escape in the middle of typing something? Besides, there's Ctrl Z...

          Also, there are some sites that force the browser to fetch the latest version, especially one with dynamic content...


          The solution seems simple - if you don't like IE6 behavior, try other browsers ... Mozilla is an excellent alternative...
          Last edited by Tolitz; Thu 12 Jun '03, 8:01am.
          OPEN TECH SUPPORT
          "Tech is our middle name!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you, Tolitz, for confirming all of my points. I consider these all bugs.

            Originally posted by Tolitz
            Also, there are some sites that force the browser to fetch the latest version, especially one with dynamic content...
            I expect my web browser to ignore "no-cache" tags when pressing Back or Next. I don't want a new version of the page. I want the version of the page I was JUST looking at 3 frickin seconds ago!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by feldon23
              Thank you, Tolitz, for confirming all of my points. I consider these all bugs.


              I expect my web browser to ignore "no-cache" tags when pressing Back or Next. I don't want a new version of the page. I want the version of the page I was JUST looking at 3 frickin seconds ago!
              Well I'm not sure what your settings are, but when I hit "Back", I get shown a cached page.

              Comment


              • #8
                By the way, the topic of this message is not "help Morgan find a new web browser". It's "why hasn't anyone with hacking skills spent the hour or so to fix the bugs in IE6?"

                Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                In fact, Microsoft announced the other day that 6.0 SP1 is the last public release of IE.
                Awesome!

                So any 3rd party bugfixes will be effective for a long time, especially on my computer since I refuse to pollute it with Windows "no user serviceable parts inside" XP or any kind of subscription version of Windows. *hugs my 2000*

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Marco
                  Well I'm not sure what your settings are, but when I hit "Back", I get shown a cached page.

                  That's my current setting. It should work as-advertised, since I am not reopening IE when I press Back or Next am I? Never would annoy me to no end.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Most of the time I get a cached page when hitting back, unless the developer said not to, but that happens in Mozilla and Opera too.

                    PHP Developers can control how caching works


                    The quick reply box here on vB is not your standard textarea, it is HTML in a div, which is not saved, because it is dynamically written, it is NOT a form element.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cyborg from DH
                      The quick reply box here on vB is not your standard textarea, it is HTML in a div, which is not saved, because it is dynamically written, it is NOT a form element.
                      Ah, I see now. I should have said that I tested the Quick Reply box on my forum which is vB2.

                      So, by default, the Quick Reply is also WYSIWYG with all the issues inherent in the Microsoft editor which is walled off from any attempts to improve it by vB developers.

                      Namely, copying and pasting a "warm" (already carrying a link after being pasted from another Microsoft styled text-aware program) URL, putting {img}{/img} tags around it and it freaks out?

                      Edit: Yep. I just tested it. I turned off WYSIWYG (vBCode Editor) and the Quick Reply box acts like vB2.
                      Last edited by feldon23; Thu 12 Jun '03, 8:24am.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cyborg from DH
                        Most of the time I get a cached page when hitting back, unless the developer said not to, but that happens in Mozilla and Opera too.
                        It's more random than that, otherwise we would NEVER get a cached copy of any page on this forum. Every page is set to no-cache like vB2 right?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Actually, no-cache settings are dependant on the admin of a vBulletin forum. I believe this forum does not use the no-cache settings.
                          Translations provided by Google.

                          Wayne Luke
                          The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                          vBulletin 5 API

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I hope this will be better documented in vB3. In vB2, maybe I didn't read that part of the manual, but the impression I got was "it is a Bad Idea [TM] to not use no-cache with vB2".

                            Guess I'll put this on my to-do list of sections to write.

                            I'm also wondering who is going to put up a vB3 hacks/template edits forum until vBulletin.org opens theirs with the release of vB3 RC2(?). I know I am going to post an updated version of my IRCBrowse hack for mIRC/vBulletin which requires no FTP or eggdrop.

                            I haven't commented on it yet, but cool avatar.
                            Last edited by feldon23; Thu 12 Jun '03, 8:37am.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If I recall correctly, Apache defaults to sending no-cache headers itself. So even if vB doesn't send them, it's possible the web server will.

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