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  • Judge: Verizon must turn over name of music downloader

    Wow...

    The recording industry can get its hands on the name of an Internet user who downloaded more than 600 songs in a single day, a federal judge has ruled.

    Judge John D. Bates of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia on Tuesday ordered Verizon Internet Services Inc. to turn over the name of an individual music downloader to the Recording Industry Association of America Inc. (RIAA). The ruling is a victory for the record companies in their fight to control how music is downloaded from the Internet.

    http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0301/22.music.php
    Chen Avinadav
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

    גם אני מאוכזב מסיקור תחרות לתור מוטור של NRG הרשת ע"י מעריב

  • #2
    Oouch.
    Raz - KMC Forums

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    • #3
      so wait- the news, and everyone throws a stink about the FBI doing this with carnivore, and yet there's no media or government outcry now that a privately owned civilian corporation is allowed to basically write their own warrants? This is a new low. The US is not run by Congress, the President, Nor the Courts, it's run by Multi-billion dollar megacompanies.

      That's it, I'm going to canada.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by heretic
        so wait- the news, and everyone throws a stink about the FBI doing this with carnivore, and yet there's no media or government outcry now that a privately owned civilian corporation is allowed to basically write their own warrants? This is a new low. The US is not run by Congress, the President, Nor the Courts, it's run by Multi-billion dollar megacompanies.

        That's it, I'm going to canada.
        Before you pack your bags...

        The RIAA didn't "write its own warrant" -- it requested the enforcement of a subpoena. It's an ongoing case in which the RIAA had requested documents from Verizon in the course of a pending civil case in court. Companies can bring lawsuits against individuals who cause the company damage, and our courts have a little thing called a discovery process by which all the pertinent information is aired. If you were suing the company, you'd be glad that you could "write your own warrant" against them to get the information you needed.

        That said, I think the RIAA is going down an awful path. They're desperately trying to prop up what is fast becoming an obsolete system of delivering music. A lot of middle men between the artists and the audience stand to lose the jobs (and some would say rightly so); you'd expect them to use every legal means at their disposal to fight the erosion of the profit margins. Seems to me that the long-term prudent thing to do would be to examine their business structure and develop a system by which listeners can download single songs for a fee, and thus cash in on the new technology, instead of fighting it. But this isn't some small operation. It's a HUGE industry. Change comes hard.
        iComix :: web comics

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        • #5
          Originally posted by heretic
          so wait- the news, and everyone throws a stink about the FBI doing this with carnivore, and yet there's no media or government outcry now that a privately owned civilian corporation is allowed to basically write their own warrants? This is a new low. The US is not run by Congress, the President, Nor the Courts, it's run by Multi-billion dollar megacompanies.

          That's it, I'm going to canada.
          I would just like to say goodbye and hope you like your adopted country to your liking. However when you can't purchase property, don't get access to all services because you are not a citizen and other issues that crop up, don't come crawling back.
          Translations provided by Google.

          Wayne Luke
          The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
          vBulletin 5 API

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bigmattyh
            Before you pack your bags...

            Seems to me that the long-term prudent thing to do would be to examine their business structure and develop a system by which listeners can download single songs for a fee, and thus cash in on the new technology, instead of fighting it. But this isn't some small operation. It's a HUGE industry. Change comes hard.
            I totally agree with this, however, that's too obvious and too much work for the RIAA and an unfortunate trait in American business today. Companies want you to come to their doorstep, knock on their doors and hold your wallets open as they reach in and take out the money. They don't want to have to actually *WORK* to make their money (now that would be a novel concept - huh?) Companies of today, can't be bothered looking at tomorrow. They just care about how they can line their pockets as quickly as possible, manipulate the numbers on the ledger to show major losses and then fire all their workers and take the sign down out front.

            Restructuring and redesigning your business constructs and your ways of conducting business are too much work when it's much easier to just file a lawsuit, pay some attorneys and win a case thus collecting your nice big check. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic).
            Rob

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            • #7
              Perhaps if they didn't waste their money on moronic lawsuits like this, CD prices wouldn't be as high...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                I would just like to say goodbye and hope you like your adopted country to your liking. However when you can't purchase property, don't get access to all services because you are not a citizen and other issues that crop up, don't come crawling back.
                "hope you like your adopted country to your liking"?
                "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
                "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
                Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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                • #9
                  posted by Bigmattyh
                  The RIAA didn't "write its own warrant" -- it requested the enforcement of a subpoena. It's an ongoing case in which the RIAA had requested documents from Verizon in the course of a pending civil case in court. Companies can bring lawsuits against individuals who cause the company damage, and our courts have a little thing called a discovery process by which all the pertinent information is aired.
                  There's a flaw in your logic though. If the article is correct on it's information, them by the DMCA, the company CAN'T use that information in lawsuits against the individual...

                  From the article....
                  Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), copyright holders are allowed to request subpoenas for information on infringers without taking further legal action, such as filing a lawsuit.
                  Quite disturbing. I tend to side with Verizon on this. The ruling says basicly that a company cannot promise confidentiality to it's customers. If it were the government directly demanding access to Verizon's records, it would have been thrown out of court I beleive.

                  I also tend to question whether the idea that information obtained through the DMCA will not be used in further legal actions. Frankly I think it's BS that the RIAA won't use that information. Think of it this way, if they are prohibited by the act to use the information against the person, why pay legal fees to get the information to start with? They're collecting names in order to get back at the people somehow. I wouldn't be too surprised if they gave their information to a third party who took action on their behalf in a manner not covered by the DMCA.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RobAC
                    I totally agree with this, however, that's too obvious and too much work for the RIAA and an unfortunate trait in American business today.
                    Not to split hairs, but I disagree that resistance to change is a hallmark of American business. The music industry's resistance to change has nothing to do with the fact that it is American; rather, it has everything to do with its size and scope. The bigger an institution, the more inertia.

                    They don't want to have to actually *WORK* to make their money (now that would be a novel concept - huh?)
                    That right there is precisely what makes the music industry so shameful in its attempts to preserve the status quo at all costs: 99% of the people involved are middlemen, each taking a piece of the pie as it makes its way from the audience to the musician. Companies all over the world have been increasing efficiency to get a better competitive edge and to provide a better value to the customer for a lower price. And somehow, ALWAYS, these trends manage to escape the entertainment industry. (Personally, I think it's because there will never be a shortage of musicians/actors/artists who just want to get paid ANYTHING to do what they love to do. Supply and demand. Too many people wanting in to the same job = people just glad to get the gig, even though 95% of their productivity goes to other people.)
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MacKenzie
                      There's a flaw in your logic though. If the article is correct on it's information, them by the DMCA, the company CAN'T use that information in lawsuits against the individual...
                      I may have read incorrectly about whether there is a pending case (so I'll admit I may be guilty of a flaw of knowledge ).
                      Quite disturbing. I tend to side with Verizon on this. The ruling says basicly that a company cannot promise confidentiality to it's customers. If it were the government directly demanding access to Verizon's records, it would have been thrown out of court I beleive.
                      Speaking in broad terms (because I am not well-versed in the specifics), no company can promise unlimited confidentiality to its customers in matters regarding a criminal or civil investigation. The police can instantly get a warrant for your phone records if you are part of a criminal investigation. Proponents of this aspect of the DMCA would argue that a similar standard applies in this case. I find it a little odd that it is possible to get the court to issue a subpoena for records when no actual case has been brought against anyone. Perhaps this will be something that is challenged and struck down, as certain aspects of it may conflict with the 4th amendment protection against illegal searches.
                      They're collecting names in order to get back at the people somehow. I wouldn't be too surprised if they gave their information to a third party who took action on their behalf in a manner not covered by the DMCA.
                      To me it just sounds like they're going fishing to see if they can get a bite on this. If they win, that'll be their strategy until it doesn't work anymore. (And on a related note, someone recently proposed legislation that would collect fees from all internet users to pay the studios for illegal copyright infringement, regardless of whether they themselves downloaded copyrighted material illegally.)

                      Now, if only people got up in arms about the practices of Big Hollywood the way they get up in arms about Big Oil or Big Tobacco... Right. People will be kissing Hollywood's butt until the sun stops shining.
                      iComix :: web comics

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                      • #12
                        I didn't know that Sony and Vivendi among others were American Corporations. I thought Sony hailed from Japan and Vivendi from France. They are also two of the largest contributors to the RIAA which in itself is not a company but a trade association.
                        Translations provided by Google.

                        Wayne Luke
                        The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                        vBulletin 5 API

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                          I didn't know that Sony and Vivendi among others were American Corporations. I thought Sony hailed from Japan and Vivendi from France. They are also two of the largest contributors to the RIAA which in itself is not a company but a trade association.
                          Sony's corporate headquarters are in Toukyou within easy walking distance of Shinagawa station opposite le Meridian Pacific with direct line of sight to Toukyou Tower (from a high enough floor). I should know, I've been there.
                          ...and they're an American registered company?

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                          • #14
                            ..I sould just buy my own island. Get net hooked up via satlight and start making my own laws..

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                            • #15
                              I would just like to say goodbye and hope you like your adopted country to your liking. However when you can't purchase property, don't get access to all services because you are not a citizen and other issues that crop up, don't come crawling back.
                              I'm pretty sure that once heretic gets here, he certainly won't want to go back, even if all of your ignorant claims were true

                              Next your gonna try and tell me that Kazaa has direct ties to Saddam...

                              ~Regs.

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