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  • #16
    Then you're only half-fool.
    "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
    "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
    Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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    • #17
      so basically the moto of this story is go by the latest AMD b4 they go out or raise the prices

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      • #18
        AMD isn't going anywhere people... relax.

        By the way, Intel fanboys, don't get your hopes up yet. Hammer will decimate your friends. Hammers clocked at 1.2GHz have already outbenched 2.8GHz P4's in certain apps.

        P4's, as far as i'm concerned, are nothing short of ripoffs. Their IPC is slow, and as far as clocks are concerned... well.. it's useless, becuase they need 1.5x more than AMD units to achieve the same speed. Their technology sucks, and the only true innovator has been AMD... well aside from Intel's 90nm process, which could turn out to be interesting.

        By the way. if AMD were to go out of business (which it won't, for a long time), Intel would have a complete monopoly over the consumer market. It would turn into Microsoft 2 as far as pricing and upgrades are concerned. So don't count on any changes. Moore's law would slow to a halt, and progress would be reversed.

        So I wouldn't be hoping for the worst, my friends. AMD is dependant on Intel, and vice versa. I may not like Intel, but they darn well better not go out of business.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by NetherChris
          AMD isn't going anywhere people... relax.

          By the way, Intel fanboys, don't get your hopes up yet. Hammer will decimate your friends. Hammers clocked at 1.2GHz have already outbenched 2.8GHz P4's in certain apps.

          P4's, as far as i'm concerned, are nothing short of ripoffs. Their IPC is slow, and as far as clocks are concerned... well.. it's useless, becuase they need 1.5x more than AMD units to achieve the same speed. Their technology sucks, and the only true innovator has been AMD... well aside from Intel's 90nm process, which could turn out to be interesting.

          By the way. if AMD were to go out of business (which it won't, for a long time), Intel would have a complete monopoly over the consumer market. It would turn into Microsoft 2 as far as pricing and upgrades are concerned. So don't count on any changes. Moore's law would slow to a halt, and progress would be reversed.

          So I wouldn't be hoping for the worst, my friends. AMD is dependant on Intel, and vice versa. I may not like Intel, but they darn well better not go out of business.
          The Hammer has similar technology to Hyper Threading though, doesn't it?
          "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
          "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
          Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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          • #20
            Honestly, I wouldn't care. I will choose what is the best and affordable for me at the time of my need. It's not like I am "Diehard" fan on AMD or intel...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Jakeman
              $854.7m? jebus!

              yep, they're gone. now we can look forward to higher priced pentiums and fewer revisions (no competition)
              LOL. Yes indeed Jakeman... I'm quite happy with my little P4 2GIG...
              I will have it for a while...

              To tell you the truth, I hesitated between AMD and Pentium...
              After seeing the movie on Tom's Hardware site, I decided to go with Pentium...
              It was showing how the AMD chip exploded in fire when removed the heat sink, compared to Pentium who kept on rolling...
              LINK:
              http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/2001...tvideo-05.html
              TECK
              Senior Member
              Last edited by TECK; Fri 17 Jan '03, 7:31pm.
              Floren Munteanu
              Axivo Inc.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by TECK
                LOL. Yes indeed Jakeman... I'm quite happy with my little P4 2GIG...
                I will have it for a while...

                To tell you the truth, I hesitated between AMD and Pentium...
                After seeing the movie on Tom's Hardware site, I decided to go with Pentium...
                It was showing how the AMD chip exploded in fire when removed the heat sink, compared to Pentium who kept on rolling...
                LINK:
                http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/2001...tvideo-05.html
                Yup. AMD hasn't taken any consideration into heat in that manner.

                Whereas Intel chips will underclock themselves to keep from dieing.
                CeleronXT
                Senior Member
                Last edited by CeleronXT; Fri 17 Jan '03, 7:46pm.
                "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
                "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
                Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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                • #23
                  hehe, that movie was fun to see and informative,too.

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                  • #24
                    it doesn't matter who is better. the amd platform has crappy boards.

                    ...actually, the nforce 2 is decent, but that's the only one.

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                    • #25
                      Having those kind of losses does not mean that the company's going under. It probably means they'll have to do some major restructuring, but there's no reason for them to stop making their CPU's. (If you'll notice, the CPU sales are UP. There is no way they'll shut down that part of their operation.) I'd expect them to clean house, cut jobs, and reduce expenses in any way they can so that they can get a good pool of cash going to offset their expenses. That's what companies do when the business is going through a rough period.

                      Finally, about whether Intel or AMD suz/rox: Intel still sells more CPU's because they do a much better job at reaching the consumer. People feel better buying an Intel. They don't give a crap about benchmarks. They come into the store, and they know "Pentium" and they know "Intel." When the salesman says "But you can get this Athlon, or this Duron, for $200 cheaper!" they don't necessarily think that's a good thing. They think cheaper = worse, and besides, they've never heard of AMD, so why lay down a few hundred bucks on something that you're not comfortable in buying? That's the way most people think. If AMD wants to increase its market share, it's gotta advertise on a scale that can compete with Intel AND make chips that can outperform theirs.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bigmattyh
                        Having those kind of losses does not mean that the company's going under. It probably means they'll have to do some major restructuring, but there's no reason for them to stop making their CPU's. (If you'll notice, the CPU sales are UP. There is no way they'll shut down that part of their operation.) I'd expect them to clean house, cut jobs, and reduce expenses in any way they can so that they can get a good pool of cash going to offset their expenses. That's what companies do when the business is going through a rough period.

                        Finally, about whether Intel or AMD suz/rox: Intel still sells more CPU's because they do a much better job at reaching the consumer. People feel better buying an Intel. They don't give a crap about benchmarks. They come into the store, and they know "Pentium" and they know "Intel." When the salesman says "But you can get this Athlon, or this Duron, for $200 cheaper!" they don't necessarily think that's a good thing. They think cheaper = worse, and besides, they've never heard of AMD, so why lay down a few hundred bucks on something that you're not comfortable in buying? That's the way most people think. If AMD wants to increase its market share, it's gotta advertise on a scale that can compete with Intel AND make chips that can outperform theirs.
                        Their uncomfortableness is justified.
                        "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
                        "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
                        Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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                        • #27
                          But this is a bit strange. You guys talk as if AMD must win Intel. AMD's price is about half of Intel CPU. It means AMD will have a disadvantage in terms of CPU capability (Heat issue in this case).

                          "You get what you pay for", yes?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by klisis
                            But this is a bit strange. You guys talk as if AMD must win Intel. AMD's price is about half of Intel CPU. It means AMD will have a disadvantage in terms of CPU capability (Heat issue in this case).

                            "You get what you pay for", yes?
                            Exactly... Why does no one understand this?!
                            "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
                            "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
                            Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              OK.

                              I am really sick and tired of hearing people completely uneducated and underqualified in the subject giving these so called reasons why AMD is worse.

                              So let me address them.

                              1. Heat. Only a moron could fry a processor because of heat. And I mean, a moron. Clipped the HSF on wrong, blah blah blah. The odds of a heatsink clip breaking with a properly mounted HSF are slim to none. If it does, it's just as probable as it would happen on an Intel board. And don't think all P4's magically save themselves when a HSF falls off. Plenty die. In fact, the Athlon boards now have a fan fail system, where the computer will shut off in the event of fan failure. Still, no auto clocking, but then again, AMD chips aren't designed for people who would make much a foolish mistake.

                              2. Overclocking. All you intel people with your overclocked P4's... they are amazing. The Northwood core .13um process is probably the most technologically superior core ever produced. The IPC may have been weak, but they overclock like monsters. Just don't increase the voltage. Three words
                              GATE OXIDE CORROSION
                              Once the voltage hits 1.7v, which happens under circumstances in high volting boards or if overclocked, a process known as gate oxide corrosion takes place. This is where the gates in the processor that actually switch on and off and control the flow of data.. well.. corrode and dissappear. P4's have died in MINUTES when overclocked, some stock processors don't last more than a few months, while others last months are more. Extended time tests have not had the chance to mature. But if your P4 gets any more than 1.7v, it will die, and it will die soon. May be a month, may be a year, may be a day. But not much more than that.

                              3. Motherboards... Jakeman, you hit the nail on the head here. VIA has lived by the WAIT FOR THE A rule, which basically states... don't buy a base revision chipset. KT133, KT266, and the ORIGINAL KT333CD chipsets all had colossal downfalls. The KT133A, KT266A, and KT333CE (which was the second revision, although never marked an A) fixed most, if not all, problems associated with the VIA chipsets and made the boards quite stable. The new KT400 is being met with an A revision in a month or two, but there are no major stability or performance issues with the current boards. There are always bad apples. Plenty of Intel boards suck too. In many cases, AMD boards by Abit and ASUS work better compatibility wise then Intel boards, and vice versa. IT'S A GAME OF LUCK! Read the reviews and purchase wisely, and you won't be disappointed.

                              4. Price. AMD's aren't market that much to joe schmoe except in prebuilt computer. If customer X walks in to compUSA looking to build a computer, then customer X is an idiot (with all due respect to anybody I may be offending here). Because anybody who knows anything about computers know that compUSA sells dated motherboards and processors which can usually be found up to 25% cheaper from reputable online retailers. So you're dealing with a guy who has a far greater likelihood of burning up a proc. That's why they buy Intel. Because intel is consumer friendly, for people who choose not to know anything about computers before jumping into the ring. That's why Intel is, and always will be, the consumer and most likely the OEM king.

                              5. Use. AMDs will always be, for the most part, enthusiast chips. Why, you ask? Because they work better! IPC speeds are lightning fast, and still beat out many late model P4's at less than half the price (take the new 3.06HT released. The AXP 2600+ comes within points of the P4 in certain benchmarks and costs nearly $300 less). If you know what you are doing, then the odds of purchasing AMD are far greater. However, with the new P4's that OC well, enthusiasts by them anyways.

                              Final statement: THEY BOTH HAVE WEAKNESSES AND GOOD POINTS! God people, this war has been started at internet BBS's around the world and there is no end to it. The arguements could come on for days on and and the two sides would never come to a mutual understanding. So just deal with it and choose what you think is best.

                              There is, however, nothing worse than an uneducated buyer. It's like sticking a fork in the microwave... just sparks and pain.

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                              • #30
                                i don't care. i bought a p4. it has served me well. i'll stick with it. i'm not loyal to any platform though.

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